How fast a tempo for rudiments?

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Nick

2003-12-27 04:30:18 UTC

Hi,
I just took up the drums a month ago (been playing guitar and
keyboards for 20+ years) and I've been working with "Buddy Rich's
Modern Interpretation of Snare Drum Rudiments" (no instructor - just
doing the self-teaching thing). They remind me of Hanon exercises for
the piano that I studied as a "lad" and, while they seem a bit tedious
at times, my drummer friends have convinced me of their practicality,
just as the Hanon was for piano.

What I'm stumbling over at the moment is how fast a tempo I should
work towards on each exercise before moving onto the next. The text
doesn't specify - it simply says "...the tempo may gradually be
increased". Exercise 1, which is simply one measure of four strokes on
the right hand and a second measure of four strokes of the left hand,
in 4/4 time, finds me unable to get beyond 84-85 BPM, playing each
stroke as a sixteenth note. Is this fast enough? Should I be targeting
a faster tempo? Does it matter?

Thanks very much in advance!
Nick

Erich

2003-12-27 04:46:12 UTC

Permalink

Post by Nick
Hi,
I just took up the drums a month ago (been playing guitar and
keyboards for 20+ years) and I've been working with "Buddy Rich's
Modern Interpretation of Snare Drum Rudiments" (no instructor - just
doing the self-teaching thing). They remind me of Hanon exercises for
the piano that I studied as a "lad" and, while they seem a bit tedious
at times, my drummer friends have convinced me of their practicality,
just as the Hanon was for piano.
What I'm stumbling over at the moment is how fast a tempo I should
work towards on each exercise before moving onto the next. The text
doesn't specify - it simply says "...the tempo may gradually be
increased". Exercise 1, which is simply one measure of four strokes on
the right hand and a second measure of four strokes of the left hand,
in 4/4 time, finds me unable to get beyond 84-85 BPM, playing each
stroke as a sixteenth note. Is this fast enough? Should I be targeting
a faster tempo? Does it matter?
Thanks very much in advance!
Nick

Ideally, you'll want to be able to rip them at 120bpm fluidly. For a
newbie, I'd advise playing them until you're sick of it and move on. - BUT
play them until you can play them fluidly. - So if that's smooth at 85bpm,
and yer bored... move on. But as you develop wrist strength and better
coordination I'd review and try to move that tempo closer to the 120.

Erich Smith

Michel

2003-12-27 11:03:23 UTC

Permalink

Nick

Welcome to the brotherhood of drums. We'll try to forget that you were
a gueetar player ;-)

In my humble experience, tempo is not an issue in rudiment playing.
What is important is precision and accuracy in the execution. It is
important for instance in the exemple you gave (4 strokes in on hand 4
strokes in the other hand) to make sure that all strokes sound exactly
the same and are equally spaced when played to a metronome. When I
started playing drums, my teacher put me on page 1 of Stick Control
for nearly 2 months. I had to repeat and repeat the same 13 exercises
at slow tempo until he was satisfied, when he turned his back to me,
that he couldn't tell whether I was playing a paradiddle, a single
stroke, or a double stroke.

The speed will come with relaxation. My advice to you: for now
concentrate on playing the exercises perfectly and accurately at slow
tempo.

good luck

Michel
--
" we get old too soon and smart too late"

Matt Porter

2003-12-28 21:57:50 UTC

Permalink

I tend to think of the rudiments as scales for drums. Your analogy of the
Hanon exercises is a good one. The point of rudiments is to train your
hands to become flexible, strong, and quick. Tempo is determined by your
current level of ability. Can you push that tempo while maintaining
relaxation and proper technique? If so, increase your speed; if not stay
where you are or slow down until you do play with relaxation and proper
technique. Do this stuff long enough (years) and speed will develop
naturally and rapidly. Don't do it, and you risk putting a cap on yourself
that you won't be able to break through. Many students have had to stop and
start over when they got with a good teacher because they ignored this
stuff. That is frustrating.

Matt Porter

Nick

2003-12-29 16:38:40 UTC

Permalink

Thanks everyone for the help, I really appreciate it! And I'm glad to
hear I can move through the exercises, albeit at a slower tempo,
instead of waiting to hit a blazing pace.

And I must say, having been working on these rudiments for only about
a month or so, always with a metronone, and I can already notice a big
improvement in my sense of time and steadiness of stroke. One other
question in regards to rudiments which the Buddy Rich book doesn't
directly address:

It seems that at slow to moderate tempos each stroke is a very
deliberate action, but at some point (tempo) you have to shift from a
deliberate stroke to more of a "bounce", in order to get the speed. At
least, I'm finding it easier to get the speed by using a bounce. Is
this cheating?

Thanks again. I look forward to learning from this forum as I explore
the drums!

Nick

Post by Matt Porter
I tend to think of the rudiments as scales for drums. Your analogy of the
Hanon exercises is a good one. The point of rudiments is to train your
hands to become flexible, strong, and quick. Tempo is determined by your
current level of ability. Can you push that tempo while maintaining
relaxation and proper technique? If so, increase your speed; if not stay
where you are or slow down until you do play with relaxation and proper
technique. Do this stuff long enough (years) and speed will develop
naturally and rapidly. Don't do it, and you risk putting a cap on yourself
that you won't be able to break through. Many students have had to stop and
start over when they got with a good teacher because they ignored this
stuff. That is frustrating.
Matt Porter

Nick

2003-12-29 23:34:18 UTC

Permalink

I posted this minutes too soon...

I just got to exercise #33 "Double Stroke Roll" in the Buddy Rich book
and he addresses the utility (nay, necessity?) of the "bounce".

Apologies for the wasted bandwidth. In the future I'll research my
questions more thoroughly.

Fraternally in rhythm,
Nick

Post by Nick
Thanks everyone for the help, I really appreciate it! And I'm glad to
hear I can move through the exercises, albeit at a slower tempo,
instead of waiting to hit a blazing pace.
And I must say, having been working on these rudiments for only about
a month or so, always with a metronone, and I can already notice a big
improvement in my sense of time and steadiness of stroke. One other
question in regards to rudiments which the Buddy Rich book doesn't
It seems that at slow to moderate tempos each stroke is a very
deliberate action, but at some point (tempo) you have to shift from a
deliberate stroke to more of a "bounce", in order to get the speed. At
least, I'm finding it easier to get the speed by using a bounce. Is
this cheating?
Thanks again. I look forward to learning from this forum as I explore
the drums!
Nick

morris

2003-12-29 02:40:56 UTC

Permalink

you should have your drummer friends monitor your hand position. on
the most basic level, you can play slowly using all wrists, wrists and
fingers, all fingers, and any variation of that. if you trust them,
have them show you some things evey week or so. slow and steady as
she goes..... nice and easy does it every time.

i tooka bunch of lessons with henry adler who wrote thst book since
buddy couldn't read ( or write) it's hard to tell you what to do
without a video upload though. good luck. and groove hard always

Chris Milillo

2003-12-29 06:21:32 UTC

Permalink

Post by morris

you should have your drummer friends monitor your hand position. on
the most basic level, you can play slowly using all wrists, wrists and
fingers, all fingers, and any variation of that. if you trust them,
have them show you some things evey week or so. slow and steady as
she goes..... nice and easy does it every time.
i tooka bunch of lessons with henry adler who wrote thst book since
buddy couldn't read ( or write) it's hard to tell you what to do
without a video upload though. good luck. and groove hard always

The "Buddy Rich Book", as I called it, was the first book I used when I
began studying. From what I've heard, Henry Adler only published that book,
and Henri Klickmann actually wrote it. Either way, it's a good book.

CM