Between straight time and swing/shuffle

[Chris23]

I'm kind of fascinated lately that there is a kind of time in drumming
and music that is not exactly straight nor exactly swung. An example
out of hundreds is the song from the seventies, RADAR LOVE. That
snare beat. When you play it or feel the beat, it is looser than
straight time. I don't know if there's a word for this kind of time.
It's not as subtle as just saying it's a "pocket" or a "groove", is
it? Or is it? It's cool.

Chris

[Steve Turner]

Post by Chris23
I'm kind of fascinated lately that there is a kind of time in drumming
and music that is not exactly straight nor exactly swung. An example
out of hundreds is the song from the seventies, RADAR LOVE. That
snare beat. When you play it or feel the beat, it is looser than
straight time. I don't know if there's a word for this kind of time.
It's not as subtle as just saying it's a "pocket" or a "groove", is
it? Or is it? It's cool.
Chris

Jim Keltner is one of the masters of that type of groove. The song "The
Action" from the "Little Village" album comes to mind...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003A9GKQG/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk2

[oldschool]

I'm thinking Radar Love is pretty close to true triplet time, but I
haven't heard it in a while. They do hit a righteous pocket on that
tune.

Time feels that live in the cracks between straight 8ths and triplets
are an important part of music from NOLA and the Gulf zone generally.
Check Big Luther on "Hey Pockey Way":

Also very common in older R&B, check out James' "Think":

It's a hip thing, not many guys can play it well anymore. Ever since
drum machines came out, folks focus a lot more on accuracy and not so
much on feel.

Post by Chris23
I'm kind of fascinated lately that there is a kind of time in drumming
and music that is not exactly straight nor exactly swung.  An example
out of hundreds is the song from the seventies, RADAR LOVE.  That
snare beat.  When you play it or feel the beat, it is looser than
straight time.  I don't know if there's a word for this kind of time.
It's not as subtle as just saying it's a "pocket" or a "groove", is
it?  Or is it?  It's cool.
Chris

Jim Keltner is one of the masters of that type of groove.  The song "The
Action" from the "Little Village" album comes to mind...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003A9GKQG/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk2
--
1. Never tell them everything you know;
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

[Pete Pemberton]

Post by oldschool
I'm thinking Radar Love is pretty close to true triplet time, but I
haven't heard it in a while. They do hit a righteous pocket on that
tune.
Time feels that live in the cracks between straight 8ths and triplets
are an important part of music from NOLA and the Gulf zone generally.
Check Big Luther on "Hey Pockey Way":

r9EbeKE
http://youtu.be/Msp7KbIjFmw
It's a hip thing, not many guys can play it well anymore. Ever since
drum machines came out, folks focus a lot more on accuracy and not so
much on feel.

Post by Chris23
I'm kind of fascinated lately that there is a kind of time in drumming
and music that is not exactly straight nor exactly swung.  An example
out of hundreds is the song from the seventies, RADAR LOVE.  That
snare beat.  When you play it or feel the beat, it is looser than
straight time.  I don't know if there's a word for this kind of time.
It's not as subtle as just saying it's a "pocket" or a "groove", is
it?  Or is it?  It's cool.
Chris

Jim Keltner is one of the masters of that type of groove.  The song "Th

e

Action" from the "Little Village" album comes to mind...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003A9GKQG/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk2
--
1. Never tell them everything you know;
To reply, eat the taco.http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Check The Meters like Hey Pocky.

Bomham also used this well IMO.

PP

[-MIKE-]

Post by Steve Turner
Jim Keltner is one of the masters of that type of groove. The song "Th
Action" from the "Little Village" album comes to mind...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003A9GKQG/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk2

Keltner, Richie Hayward... Those guys could play a buzz roll and you'd
hear a shuffle. :-)

[drummerrob]

Post by Chris23
I'm kind of fascinated lately that there is a kind of time in drumming
and music that is not exactly straight nor exactly swung.  An example
out of hundreds is the song from the seventies, RADAR LOVE.  That
snare beat.  When you play it or feel the beat, it is looser than
straight time.  I don't know if there's a word for this kind of time.
It's not as subtle as just saying it's a "pocket" or a "groove", is
it?  Or is it?  It's cool.
Chris

I've heard people refer to this as "swunk" (swinging funk), although
there are many variations of it. I first recognized this kind of
groove some years after I started playing (in the '60s), but it took
me a lot of time listening to absorb the feel and be able to reproduce
it. It is one of many "cultural grooves" that cannot be analyzed in
terms of mathematics. It is a good example of why music is ultimately
analogue and not digital, in its essence. The drum machine
manufacturers have put "humanizers" into their products in order to
reproduce this with a drum machine.

My recommendation is you spend a lot of time listening to different
examples of this feel. Also, the feel can change from one song to the
other, that is, they're not all the same.

All the early rock drummers right up to Ringo knew how to play with
this feel. Various examples, in addition to the ones listed in the
responses you've received, include:

many songs by The Meters, Wild Tchoupitoulas and other New Orleans
artists
Elvis Jailhouse Rock and other Elvis tunes
lots of reggae
rockabilly in general

In addition, another, different cultural feel is found in Brazilian
songstyles, most prominently the batucada, which totally defies any
attempt to notate it.

These are some of the things that make music incredibly vivid for me.

Rob