New Drummer: Drum pedal hitting foot and other issues

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

George Jefferson

2010-06-25 18:01:46 UTC

I just got me an electronic drum set and having a blast playing it(getting
easier and easier to play). I think I have it setup somewhat comfortably for
me but rather "tight"(every pad is less than a foot from the next one). I
can reach all the pads without any trouble and it doesn't seem to stress my
back as much as it initially did. In any case is there any necessary things
I should worry about? It feels pretty nice playing and I'm sure it could be
improved but just want to know if there are any no-no's(obvious there are
but the most common for a beginner).

Some issues I have:

drum pedal beater hitting my foot when I lift up too much(usually when I'm
trying to hit it harder). I don't see how to fix this by
modifying/reconfiguring the pedal. Also the beater isn't too far out so it
probably would be even worse on a real drum set. I'm sure there is a way to
fix this or is it something one just has to get use to? (I've been
practicing without shoes so...)

The left hand when playing the snare hits my leg a little. I lifted up the
snare so it is not as bad and I am getting use to it but I can't lift it up
any more because it's as high as it will go.

Every once in a while when I go for some pad with my hands crossed it will
be hard to get to. I realized most of this is technique(using the right hand
sequence so your hands are not tangled up). But if I move from the left side
of the drumset to the right side and hit a tom with the left hand then want
to play a the crash with the right, which is back on the other side, it is
difficult to get to just because of the distance needed to travel and the
left hand is slight in the way. It does not feel at all right to use the
left hand to hit the crash even if I swap hands completely(so the right hand
hit the tom last). May this is just because my left hand is very weak and
inept(I'm sure it will get easier over time).

Is the issue above somewhat just a property of the drumset? It seems your
always going to have issues with having one hand having to go from one side
to the other. Is this why pro drummers have a very large number of
"duplicate" pads so they can quickly get to them and not have to travel so
far?

Finally, The snare drum, a Mesh head, is very reactive. It's very very very
easy to do rolls and stuff and many times when I just want to hit it once
I'll get a double hit. It's not because of extra triggering but because the
head is so bouncy. This is cool at times but if I don't want to do it I have
to pay more attention and usually slightly "jerk" the drumstick back up to
prevent the double hit. Is this normal for an acoustic snare drum? I
released the tension on the mesh head slightly(quarter of a turn per bolt)
and it did help a little but I'm afraid of doing it to much. I don't think I
will screw it up though but not sure.

Zomoniac

2010-06-26 00:53:41 UTC

Permalink

Welcome to the club :)

Setup is entirely a personal preference thing. On my electronic kit my
snare and top two toms are all about a centimetre apart, if that. I'd
say a foot was a massive distance, way too much for me, but if it suits
you then that's cool. As a rule of thumb, if you're having to
uncomfortably stretch or pull back (if you have to lean your back
forward to reach cymbals, or bring your elbows behind your back to
reach your snare) then you need to reconsider your setup. There's no
right way to set up, but there are wrong ways, just make sure you're
uncomfortable and don't feel restricted. I'd advise you to take all the
drums off and build up. Put your kick down first, pedal attached, and
your throne. Find the position and height where you feel most
comfortable playing. Then bring in the snare, adjust it to be
comfortable, then the hats, then toms, then cymbals. Don't set up your
kit and try and fit yourself in around it, set up yourself first, then
build around your position and reach.

Post by George Jefferson
drum pedal beater hitting my foot when I lift up too much(usually when
I'm trying to hit it harder). I don't see how to fix this by
modifying/reconfiguring the pedal. Also the beater isn't too far out so
it probably would be even worse on a real drum set. I'm sure there is a
way to fix this or is it something one just has to get use to? (I've
been practicing without shoes so...)

Hitting your actual foot rather than leg?? Sounds weird. Don't lift
your foot off the board completely. You don't want to bury the beater
on each stroke (or maybe you do, some prefer it, I don't), but you
don't have to bring it straight back all the way. Also, try moving
yourself further from or closer to the drum, and experiment with how
far up the pedal board you have your foot.

Post by George Jefferson
The left hand when playing the snare hits my leg a little. I lifted up
the snare so it is not as bad and I am getting use to it but I can't
lift it up any more because it's as high as it will go.

Try moving the snare a little further away from you.

Post by George Jefferson
Every once in a while when I go for some pad with my hands crossed it
will be hard to get to. I realized most of this is technique(using the
right hand sequence so your hands are not tangled up). But if I move
from the left side of the drumset to the right side and hit a tom with
the left hand then want to play a the crash with the right, which is
back on the other side, it is difficult to get to just because of the
distance needed to travel and the left hand is slight in the way. It
does not feel at all right to use the left hand to hit the crash even
if I swap hands completely(so the right hand hit the tom last). May
this is just because my left hand is very weak and inept(I'm sure it
will get easier over time).

Start slow. Do your fill so slowly you can get back across easily in
the time you have. Keep doing it. Go a bit faster. Repeat. It will
come. Your weak hand will also get stronger, so you can if you prefer
play a double stroke with the right hand and crash with the left.

Post by George Jefferson
Is the issue above somewhat just a property of the drumset? It seems
your always going to have issues with having one hand having to go from
one side to the other. Is this why pro drummers have a very large
number of "duplicate" pads so they can quickly get to them and not have
to travel so far?

It is, but for most situations practice and technique is enough. It's
not uncommon for speed metal players and the like to have duplicate
cymbals on each side of the kit, when you're playing at speeds where
such a move would be physically impossible, but for the majority of
scenarios then plenty of practice is all you need.

Post by George Jefferson
Finally, The snare drum, a Mesh head, is very reactive. It's very very
very easy to do rolls and stuff and many times when I just want to hit
it once I'll get a double hit. It's not because of extra triggering but
because the head is so bouncy. This is cool at times but if I don't
want to do it I have to pay more attention and usually slightly "jerk"
the drumstick back up to prevent the double hit. Is this normal for an
acoustic snare drum? I released the tension on the mesh head
slightly(quarter of a turn per bolt) and it did help a little but I'm
afraid of doing it to much. I don't think I will screw it up though but
not sure.

That's all in the technique. Mesh heads can be ludicrously bouncy, but
it's easy enough to avoid. Advising on this isn't something that can
really be done on a newsgroup. I'd strongly recommend, even if you want
to learn the actual drum playing by yourself, finding a good teacher
and having a few hours focused solely on how to grip the stick and
control the rebound. No amount of text guidance can substitute someone
giving you hands-on feedback and physically adjusting your hands and
watching you play. If you get good stick technique nailed early on
you'll find learning drums a hundred times easier. If you don't, you'll
hit sharp bottlenecks sooner or later.

--
Zo

George Jefferson

2010-06-29 03:56:24 UTC

Permalink

Post by Zomoniac

Welcome to the club :)
Setup is entirely a personal preference thing. On my electronic kit my
snare and top two toms are all about a centimetre apart, if that. I'd say
a foot was a massive distance, way too much for me, but if it suits you
then that's cool. As a rule of thumb, if you're having to uncomfortably
stretch or pull back (if you have to lean your back forward to reach
cymbals, or bring your elbows behind your back to reach your snare) then
you need to reconsider your setup. There's no right way to set up, but
there are wrong ways, just make sure you're uncomfortable and don't feel
restricted. I'd advise you to take all the drums off and build up. Put
your kick down first, pedal attached, and your throne. Find the position
and height where you feel most comfortable playing. Then bring in the
snare, adjust it to be comfortable, then the hats, then toms, then
cymbals. Don't set up your kit and try and fit yourself in around it, set
up yourself first, then build around your position and reach.

Hitting your actual foot rather than leg?? Sounds weird. Don't lift your
foot off the board completely. You don't want to bury the beater on each
stroke (or maybe you do, some prefer it, I don't), but you don't have to
bring it straight back all the way. Also, try moving yourself further from
or closer to the drum, and experiment with how far up the pedal board you
have your foot.

When I am trying to generate power I lift my foot up more(heel off the
ground). When I play a more relaxed beat then I don't have the problem. I
also lowered the thrown and it seemed to help alot(with the snare too).

Post by Zomoniac

Post by George Jefferson
The left hand when playing the snare hits my leg a little. I lifted up
the snare so it is not as bad and I am getting use to it but I can't lift
it up any more because it's as high as it will go.

Try moving the snare a little further away from you.

Yeah, I'm sitting back a few extra inches. It's not as comfortable butI have
more room for my left hand.

Post by Zomoniac

Post by George Jefferson
Every once in a while when I go for some pad with my hands crossed it
will be hard to get to. I realized most of this is technique(using the
right hand sequence so your hands are not tangled up). But if I move from
the left side of the drumset to the right side and hit a tom with the
left hand then want to play a the crash with the right, which is back on
the other side, it is difficult to get to just because of the distance
needed to travel and the left hand is slight in the way. It does not feel
at all right to use the left hand to hit the crash even if I swap hands
completely(so the right hand hit the tom last). May this is just because
my left hand is very weak and inept(I'm sure it will get easier over
time).

Start slow. Do your fill so slowly you can get back across easily in the
time you have. Keep doing it. Go a bit faster. Repeat. It will come. Your
weak hand will also get stronger, so you can if you prefer play a double
stroke with the right hand and crash with the left.

Post by George Jefferson
Is the issue above somewhat just a property of the drumset? It seems your
always going to have issues with having one hand having to go from one
side to the other. Is this why pro drummers have a very large number of
"duplicate" pads so they can quickly get to them and not have to travel
so far?

It is, but for most situations practice and technique is enough. It's not
uncommon for speed metal players and the like to have duplicate cymbals on
each side of the kit, when you're playing at speeds where such a move
would be physically impossible, but for the majority of scenarios then
plenty of practice is all you need.

Post by George Jefferson
Finally, The snare drum, a Mesh head, is very reactive. It's very very
very easy to do rolls and stuff and many times when I just want to hit it
once I'll get a double hit. It's not because of extra triggering but
because the head is so bouncy. This is cool at times but if I don't want
to do it I have to pay more attention and usually slightly "jerk" the
drumstick back up to prevent the double hit. Is this normal for an
acoustic snare drum? I released the tension on the mesh head
slightly(quarter of a turn per bolt) and it did help a little but I'm
afraid of doing it to much. I don't think I will screw it up though but
not sure.

That's all in the technique. Mesh heads can be ludicrously bouncy, but
it's easy enough to avoid. Advising on this isn't something that can
really be done on a newsgroup. I'd strongly recommend, even if you want to
learn the actual drum playing by yourself, finding a good teacher and
having a few hours focused solely on how to grip the stick and control the
rebound. No amount of text guidance can substitute someone giving you
hands-on feedback and physically adjusting your hands and watching you
play. If you get good stick technique nailed early on you'll find learning
drums a hundred times easier. If you don't, you'll hit sharp bottlenecks
sooner or later.

I'm not really interested in taking lessons from any one... specially at
this point as it would be a waste. The reason being is that I don't want to
be the best drummer(of cousre it would be nice but I'm not going in that
direction). I simply want to learn enough of the basics so I can fool
someone that has no clue(well, actually just to get a subconscous sense of
meter and beat).

I'm actually making progress fairly quickly and it's much easier than any
musical instrument I've tried to learn. I can already play along with some
songs(of course nothing fancy) and learning a few basic fills from them.

The only real problem I have now(I think I've fixed most of the original
issues) is that when I play I don't know if I should force myself to count
the beats/bars or go by feel. When I learn a feel I tend to use indicators
to know when to start(and if I don't miss it then I tend to have no issues
with doing it right). For example, I'll listen for the bass guitar to start
a riff and know that I'm suppose to start on the 2nd note(not that I count
notes but I just recognize the when) or I'll listen for the melody of the
guitar.

For example, one song I've been playign with, the drums do a fill at the
start of each phrase. I've simply learned the feel(it's pretty basic stuff)
and learned what note of the melody to start on. I do not know though what
beat it starts on(probably 3rd or 4th) or if it even starts on a beat
;/(might start inbetween).

This, of course, is the whole reason I want to learn to play so that I
hopefully will develop a sense of where I'm at in the bar. I'm sure counting
would help a lot but I also seems like a lot of trouble and somewhat
unnature(end up focusing on counting more than enjoying the music).

Pete Pemberton

2010-07-11 12:04:06 UTC

Permalink

Post by George Jefferson

Post by Zomoniac

Welcome to the club :)
Setup is entirely a personal preference thing. On my electronic kit my
snare and top two toms are all about a centimetre apart, if that. I'd
say a foot was a massive distance, way too much for me, but if it suits
you then that's cool. As a rule of thumb, if you're having to
uncomfortably stretch or pull back (if you have to lean your back
forward to reach cymbals, or bring your elbows behind your back to
reach your snare) then you need to reconsider your setup. There's no
right way to set up, but there are wrong ways, just make sure you're
uncomfortable and don't feel restricted. I'd advise you to take all the
drums off and build up. Put your kick down first, pedal attached, and
your throne. Find the position and height where you feel most
comfortable playing. Then bring in the snare, adjust it to be
comfortable, then the hats, then toms, then cymbals. Don't set up your
kit and try and fit yourself in around it, set up yourself first, then
build around your position and reach.

When I am trying to generate power I lift my foot up more(heel off the
ground). When I play a more relaxed beat then I don't have the problem.
I also lowered the thrown and it seemed to help alot(with the snare
too).

Post by Zomoniac

Try moving the snare a little further away from you.

Yeah, I'm sitting back a few extra inches. It's not as comfortable butI
have more room for my left hand.

Post by Zomoniac

I'm not really interested in taking lessons from any one... specially
at this point as it would be a waste. The reason being is that I don't
want to be the best drummer(of cousre it would be nice but I'm not
going in that direction). I simply want to learn enough of the basics
so I can fool someone that has no clue(well, actually just to get a
subconscous sense of meter and beat).
I'm actually making progress fairly quickly and it's much easier than
any musical instrument I've tried to learn. I can already play along
with some songs(of course nothing fancy) and learning a few basic fills
from them.
The only real problem I have now(I think I've fixed most of the
original issues) is that when I play I don't know if I should force
myself to count the beats/bars or go by feel. When I learn a feel I
tend to use indicators to know when to start(and if I don't miss it
then I tend to have no issues with doing it right). For example, I'll
listen for the bass guitar to start a riff and know that I'm suppose to
start on the 2nd note(not that I count notes but I just recognize the
when) or I'll listen for the melody of the guitar.
For example, one song I've been playign with, the drums do a fill at
the start of each phrase. I've simply learned the feel(it's pretty
basic stuff) and learned what note of the melody to start on. I do not
know though what beat it starts on(probably 3rd or 4th) or if it even
starts on a beat ;/(might start inbetween).
This, of course, is the whole reason I want to learn to play so that I
hopefully will develop a sense of where I'm at in the bar. I'm sure
counting would help a lot but I also seems like a lot of trouble and
somewhat unnature(end up focusing on counting more than enjoying the
music).

A good teacher can keep from learning bad habits that are difficult to
unlearn, especially for adults. Also everything you have listed in your
two posts a good teacher can help you with. It's not about being the
best drummer, a teacher can't do that for you, YOU have to put the time
in. A teacher just shows you the way to do it.

It is easy, but you will hit the wall pretty soon where you will not
improve without instruction. This is already apparent in your lack of
basic rhythm theory. Reason for this is we all learned it in music
class in 3rd grade. I can't even remember much of the French I learned
in three years in high school. :-)

PP

anonymous

2010-06-28 02:45:16 UTC

Permalink

Post by George Jefferson
I just got me an electronic drum set and having a blast playing it(getting
easier and easier to play). I think I have it setup somewhat comfortably for
me but rather "tight"(every pad is less than a foot from the next one). I
can reach all the pads without any trouble and it doesn't seem to stress my
back as much as it initially did. In any case is there any necessary things
I should worry about? It feels pretty nice playing and I'm sure it could be
improved but just want to know if there are any no-no's(obvious there are
but the most common for a beginner).
drum pedal beater hitting my foot when I lift up too much(usually when I'm
trying to hit it harder). I don't see how to fix this by
modifying/reconfiguring the pedal. Also the beater isn't too far out so it
probably would be even worse on a real drum set. I'm sure there is a way to
fix this or is it something one just has to get use to? (I've been
practicing without shoes so...)
The left hand when playing the snare hits my leg a little. I lifted up the
snare so it is not as bad and I am getting use to it but I can't lift it up
any more because it's as high as it will go.
Every once in a while when I go for some pad with my hands crossed it will
be hard to get to. I realized most of this is technique(using the right hand
sequence so your hands are not tangled up). But if I move from the left side
of the drumset to the right side and hit a tom with the left hand then want
to play a the crash with the right, which is back on the other side, it is
difficult to get to just because of the distance needed to travel and the
left hand is slight in the way. It does not feel at all right to use the
left hand to hit the crash even if I swap hands completely(so the right hand
hit the tom last). May this is just because my left hand is very weak and
inept(I'm sure it will get easier over time).
Is the issue above somewhat just a property of the drumset? It seems your
always going to have issues with having one hand having to go from one side
to the other. Is this why pro drummers have a very large number of
"duplicate" pads so they can quickly get to them and not have to travel so
far?
Finally, The snare drum, a Mesh head, is very reactive. It's very very very
easy to do rolls and stuff and many times when I just want to hit it once
I'll get a double hit. It's not because of extra triggering but because the
head is so bouncy. This is cool at times but if I don't want to do it I have
to pay more attention and usually slightly "jerk" the drumstick back up to
prevent the double hit. Is this normal for an acoustic snare drum? I
released the tension on the mesh head slightly(quarter of a turn per bolt)
and it did help a little but I'm afraid of doing it to much. I don't think I
will screw it up though but not sure.

These issues(many at least) sound like they would akso be present on
an
acoustic kit. I'm assuming your new toy is a Roland unit. If so, you
might
want to spend some time over on www.vdrums.com. I can't believe that
many/
most/all of your items haven't been discussed there. It's a wealth of
information
regarding Roland products.

Regarding your high rebound snare, I think you'll find that a good
cinching on
the head will reduce/eliminate that unwanted rebound. As I recall, a
good head
tightening is even recommended by Roland to avoid internal cone
depression.

But, they do take a while for adaptation.

d***@nowhere.invalid

2010-06-29 02:12:54 UTC

Permalink

On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:01:46 -0500, "George Jefferson"

I disagree with Zomoniac who said that setup is an "entirely" personal
preference. I disagree with the word "entirely" used there because
there are some immutable laws of physics that govern the amount of
work you are doing to produce each drum stroke, and consequently,
affect the efficiency of your playing technique.....efficiency being a
measure of how much work you are putting into creating each sound.

The physics definition of work is: force through distance. The physics
formula for force is FORCE=MASS x ACCELERATION (F=M x A). So the total
WORK you are doing while playing: WORK= MASS x ACCELERATION x
DISTANCE.

As you can see, by minimizing the distances you are reaching for each
drum stroke, you are decreasing the amount of WORK you are doing, and
thereby, increasing your playing efficiency. There are real benefits
to grouping your setup to minimize the distances you are reaching to
the playing surface of each individual drum or cymbal.

In the above case, the MASS involved is the drumstick.....plus however
much of your fingers, hand, wrist, lower arm, upper arm, upper body,
and lower body you are moving to get to the drum/cymbal position in
question. By minimizing the amount of MASS you are accelerating
through distance, you will reduce the amout of WORK you are doing,
thereby increasing your playing efficiency.

This is an issue of stick technique. As you study various players you
will notice that there are arm players, wrist players, and finger
players, i.e., these players generate their stick motions in
noticabley different fashions. This is where a good instructor can
help you in a manner which cannot be accomplished over a UseNet post.

Post by George Jefferson
drum pedal beater hitting my foot when I lift up too much(usually when I'm
trying to hit it harder). I don't see how to fix this by
modifying/reconfiguring the pedal. Also the beater isn't too far out so it
probably would be even worse on a real drum set. I'm sure there is a way to
fix this or is it something one just has to get use to? (I've been
practicing without shoes so...)

This is NOT something you should just "get used to". You have either
an improper setup or an improper technique. You should have your
methods examined by someone qualified to give you pointers in person
as it is ipossible to determine what is wrong without actually seeing
what is happening while you play.

Post by George Jefferson
The left hand when playing the snare hits my leg a little. I lifted up the
snare so it is not as bad and I am getting use to it but I can't lift it up
any more because it's as high as it will go.

Once again, impossible to determine what is wrong without
eye-witnessing it. Are you a traditional grip player or a matched grip
player?

Post by George Jefferson
Every once in a while when I go for some pad with my hands crossed it will
be hard to get to. I realized most of this is technique(using the right hand
sequence so your hands are not tangled up). But if I move from the left side
of the drumset to the right side and hit a tom with the left hand then want
to play a the crash with the right, which is back on the other side, it is
difficult to get to just because of the distance needed to travel and the
left hand is slight in the way. It does not feel at all right to use the
left hand to hit the crash even if I swap hands completely(so the right hand
hit the tom last). May this is just because my left hand is very weak and
inept(I'm sure it will get easier over time).
Is the issue above somewhat just a property of the drumset? It seems your
always going to have issues with having one hand having to go from one side
to the other. Is this why pro drummers have a very large number of
"duplicate" pads so they can quickly get to them and not have to travel so
far?

Practice, practice, practice. But before you do, take some lessons to
be sure that you are practicing with a correct technique. If you are
practicing bad habit patterns, you will do yourself more harm then
good.

Post by George Jefferson
Finally, The snare drum, a Mesh head, is very reactive. It's very very very
easy to do rolls and stuff and many times when I just want to hit it once
I'll get a double hit. It's not because of extra triggering but because the
head is so bouncy. This is cool at times but if I don't want to do it I have
to pay more attention and usually slightly "jerk" the drumstick back up to
prevent the double hit. Is this normal for an acoustic snare drum? I
released the tension on the mesh head slightly(quarter of a turn per bolt)
and it did help a little but I'm afraid of doing it to much. I don't think I
will screw it up though but not sure.

Now I am going to take a giant crap and start World War III:
electronic drums are not REAL drums!!! And those damn electronic
cymbals and hi-hats.....don't even get me going on those.
Dave

George Jefferson

2010-06-29 03:46:17 UTC

Permalink

Post by d***@nowhere.invalid
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:01:46 -0500, "George Jefferson"

I disagree with Zomoniac who said that setup is an "entirely" personal
preference. I disagree with the word "entirely" used there because
there are some immutable laws of physics that govern the amount of
work you are doing to produce each drum stroke, and consequently,
affect the efficiency of your playing technique.....efficiency being a
measure of how much work you are putting into creating each sound.
The physics definition of work is: force through distance. The physics
formula for force is FORCE=MASS x ACCELERATION (F=M x A). So the total
WORK you are doing while playing: WORK= MASS x ACCELERATION x
DISTANCE.
As you can see, by minimizing the distances you are reaching for each
drum stroke, you are decreasing the amount of WORK you are doing, and
thereby, increasing your playing efficiency. There are real benefits
to grouping your setup to minimize the distances you are reaching to
the playing surface of each individual drum or cymbal.
In the above case, the MASS involved is the drumstick.....plus however
much of your fingers, hand, wrist, lower arm, upper arm, upper body,
and lower body you are moving to get to the drum/cymbal position in
question. By minimizing the amount of MASS you are accelerating
through distance, you will reduce the amout of WORK you are doing,
thereby increasing your playing efficiency.
This is an issue of stick technique. As you study various players you
will notice that there are arm players, wrist players, and finger
players, i.e., these players generate their stick motions in
noticabley different fashions. This is where a good instructor can
help you in a manner which cannot be accomplished over a UseNet post.

Post by George Jefferson
drum pedal beater hitting my foot when I lift up too much(usually when I'm
trying to hit it harder). I don't see how to fix this by
modifying/reconfiguring the pedal. Also the beater isn't too far out so it
probably would be even worse on a real drum set. I'm sure there is a way to
fix this or is it something one just has to get use to? (I've been
practicing without shoes so...)

Post by George Jefferson
The left hand when playing the snare hits my leg a little. I lifted up the
snare so it is not as bad and I am getting use to it but I can't lift it up
any more because it's as high as it will go.

Once again, impossible to determine what is wrong without
eye-witnessing it. Are you a traditional grip player or a matched grip
player?

Post by George Jefferson
Every once in a while when I go for some pad with my hands crossed it will
be hard to get to. I realized most of this is technique(using the right hand
sequence so your hands are not tangled up). But if I move from the left side
of the drumset to the right side and hit a tom with the left hand then want
to play a the crash with the right, which is back on the other side, it is
difficult to get to just because of the distance needed to travel and the
left hand is slight in the way. It does not feel at all right to use the
left hand to hit the crash even if I swap hands completely(so the right hand
hit the tom last). May this is just because my left hand is very weak and
inept(I'm sure it will get easier over time).
Is the issue above somewhat just a property of the drumset? It seems your
always going to have issues with having one hand having to go from one side
to the other. Is this why pro drummers have a very large number of
"duplicate" pads so they can quickly get to them and not have to travel so
far?

Post by George Jefferson
Finally, The snare drum, a Mesh head, is very reactive. It's very very very
easy to do rolls and stuff and many times when I just want to hit it once
I'll get a double hit. It's not because of extra triggering but because the
head is so bouncy. This is cool at times but if I don't want to do it I have
to pay more attention and usually slightly "jerk" the drumstick back up to
prevent the double hit. Is this normal for an acoustic snare drum? I
released the tension on the mesh head slightly(quarter of a turn per bolt)
and it did help a little but I'm afraid of doing it to much. I don't think I
will screw it up though but not sure.

electronic drums are not REAL drums!!! And those damn electronic
cymbals and hi-hats.....don't even get me going on those.
Dave

Just curious... who do the top drummers take lessons from? Do they know
physics? Quantum mechanics? Do they need to solve the schrodinger wave
equation each time they hit a pad? I think these questions must be answered
before I get back on my drum set.

Zomoniac

2010-06-29 07:04:26 UTC

Permalink

Post by George Jefferson
Just curious... who do the top drummers take lessons from? Do they know
physics? Quantum mechanics? Do they need to solve the schrodinger wave
equation each time they hit a pad? I think these questions must be
answered before I get back on my drum set.

They take lessons from each other, or session players not known outside
the drumming world. Nobody is too good for lessons.

You can teach yourself rhythm and most aspects of drumming, the problem
is that if you teach yourself bad technique then a) it can actually end
up giving you some serious problems (carpal tunnel syndrome isn't an
uncommon complaint) and b) is extremely difficult to unlearn. Nobody's
suggesting have a lesson every day for the rest of your life, but a few
hours with a good instructor getting your grip and pedal technique right
from the beginning can potentially save you a LOT of grief.

I say all this from personal experience, I was entirely self-taught, got
by for 7 years but noticed a bottleneck in my development, I was so
rigid that I couldn't improve any further using my very restrictive
invented techniques, and I was getting extreme pains in my hands that
meant I couldn't play for more than an hour at a time. I went to a
teacher and basically had to start drumming like I'd never done it
before, stripped everything back and spent a year working on helping me
forget and relearn the complete basics. It took ages and was extremely
hard, but my playing has improved exponentially since then, and I
could've saved myself a hell of a lot of time and money had I just
learned to do it properly from the outset.

--
Zo

d***@nowhere.invalid

2010-06-29 07:54:32 UTC

Permalink

On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 22:46:17 -0500, "George Jefferson"

Any and every of the top drummers, whether they want to admit it or
not, takes lessons just by watching and listening to other guys play
and stealing whatever they can from what they see and hear. I got a
few hours of very intense lessons when I went to see Buddy Rich in
about 1976 when he was at his peak. You couldn't help but see and hear
that guy and have the door opened to new possibilities, methods, and
means. The total player putting on a drum clinic.

As far as most drummers having any background in physics, the answer
is probably not. I, however, do. But good drummers have the ability to
recognize efficient ways of playing vs. ways that waste their energy.

Look at Michael Jordan the basketball player as an example in learned
efficiency. When he was a beginning player in the NBA he would charge
down the lane with incredible dribbling, unbelievable moves, and
launch himself into one of his famous "hang time" stuff shots. All
this uses a large amount of energy. As he got older he developed his
"fade away" jump shot where he faked the defender into committing, and
then launched a jump shop where he jumped backwards, away from the
defender's reach, and made his shot. Very simple. Very graceful. Very
energy efficient. And he could keep that up for the entire game as
opposed to wearing himself out with the techniques he used when he was
younger.

Quantum mechanics? Sometime I'll post my theory on a cymbal's ability
to absorb karma from the drummer playing it, and why some cymbals
become musical instruments, and some are just duds that will never
have a musical sound.
Dave

Pete Pemberton

2010-07-11 12:07:22 UTC

Permalink

Post by George Jefferson

Post by d***@nowhere.invalid
electronic drums are not REAL drums!!! And those damn electronic
cymbals and hi-hats.....don't even get me going on those.
Dave

LOL AWESOME!

OK boys let's not start a fight, well maybe a little one...

dav is right on on the diagnostic aspect of your issues. This is what
teachers, well good ones, and you may have to try a few before you find
a good one, can help you with.

PP

Zomoniac

2010-06-29 06:54:25 UTC

Permalink

Post by d***@nowhere.invalid
On Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:01:46 -0500, "George Jefferson"

I didn't mean it literally! Obviously putting your snare on a 10ft stand
at the other side of the room won't make much sense :)

Post by d***@nowhere.invalid
electronic drums are not REAL drums!!! And those damn electronic
cymbals and hi-hats.....don't even get me going on those.
Dave

I've owned far too many acoustic kits, but I love my TD20 to pieces.
Cymbals and hi-hats are lovely, and it has a volume dial :)

--
Zo

d***@nowhere.invalid

2010-06-29 08:02:37 UTC

Permalink

On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 07:54:25 +0100, Zomoniac

Post by Zomoniac

Post by d***@nowhere.invalid
I disagree with Zomoniac who said that setup is an "entirely" personal
preference. I disagree with the word "entirely" used there because
there are some immutable laws of physics that govern the amount of
work you are doing to produce each drum stroke, and consequently,
affect the efficiency of your playing technique.....efficiency being a
measure of how much work you are putting into creating each sound.

I didn't mean it literally! Obviously putting your snare on a 10ft stand
at the other side of the room won't make much sense :)

I realise that, but from the way I have seen some guys set up, you'd
get the impression that they have no concept of work flow efficiency.
Somebody posted a link in this group a few years back to an E-Bay
auction of a set of drums that actually contained about four different
sets of drums and was just splayed three sheets to the wind. You would
have to have six foor long arms to have reached much of this kit. One
look at it and you just knew the guy who built it was totally clueless
and certainly musically sucked.
Dave