Band dispute - HELP!

[Steve V]

I need your guys' opinion on this situation:

Over the course of three years, each member of four-piece band
contributed equal shares of gig earnings to purchase sound system,
lights, fog machine, misc gear, and a trailer. One of the members is
the only one with a vehicle able to tow the trailer and ample space in
a rural area to store it, so he agreed to be the trailer guy. We had
been giving him gas money and extra for wear/tear. He had towed it
about a dozen times before this particular gig. After a 4hr show over
2hrs away, we were back at the meeting point in a shopping ctr parking
lot. We finished transferring some gear from the trailer to our
cars. After saying goodbye's, the trailer guy pulled out and nearly
ripped the door off one of the other guy's car with the wheel of the
trailer. Unfortunately we had not yet bought insurance, and cost of
repairs for the damage was estimated at $2700.

Here are our options for paying for the damage:

A. We all shoulder the burden and each pay $675 to get the door
replaced/fixed.
B. Driver takes full responsibility for the collision -- files a
claim w/ his insurance, pays deductible.
C. Driver files claim, the three (or four) of us pay his deductible,
maybe extra to account for possibly higher insurance rates.

How should this be handled?? We are not in agreement and it is a sore
spot right now.

-Steve

[-MIKE-]

Post by Steve V
Over the course of three years, each member of four-piece band
contributed equal shares of gig earnings to purchase sound system,
lights, fog machine, misc gear, and a trailer. One of the members is
the only one with a vehicle able to tow the trailer and ample space in
a rural area to store it, so he agreed to be the trailer guy. We had
been giving him gas money and extra for wear/tear. He had towed it
about a dozen times before this particular gig. After a 4hr show over
2hrs away, we were back at the meeting point in a shopping ctr parking
lot. We finished transferring some gear from the trailer to our
cars. After saying goodbye's, the trailer guy pulled out and nearly
ripped the door off one of the other guy's car with the wheel of the
trailer. Unfortunately we had not yet bought insurance, and cost of
repairs for the damage was estimated at $2700.
A. We all shoulder the burden and each pay $675 to get the door
replaced/fixed.
B. Driver takes full responsibility for the collision -- files a
claim w/ his insurance, pays deductible.
C. Driver files claim, the three (or four) of us pay his deductible,
maybe extra to account for possibly higher insurance rates.
How should this be handled?? We are not in agreement and it is a sore
spot right now.
-Steve

This is the kind of stuff that should be agreed up[on ahead of time.
IMO, that's what insurance is for. If he were somewhere alone and drove
the trailer into a stranger's car, he'd be responsible. You guys pay him
extra for wear and tear, past of that goes towards assuming this risk.

With that said, I think it would be cool if the band pitched in on the
deductible. It was a "band" thing... even if the bonehead can't drive,
you *all* assume the risk of having a bad driver drive the trailer around.

You guys need to butch up and pay his deductible for the sake of the band.

[Pete Pemberton]

Post by -MIKE-

Post by Steve V
Over the course of three years, each member of four-piece band
contributed equal shares of gig earnings to purchase sound system,
lights, fog machine, misc gear, and a trailer. One of the members is
the only one with a vehicle able to tow the trailer and ample space in
a rural area to store it, so he agreed to be the trailer guy. We had
been giving him gas money and extra for wear/tear. He had towed it
about a dozen times before this particular gig. After a 4hr show over
2hrs away, we were back at the meeting point in a shopping ctr parking
lot. We finished transferring some gear from the trailer to our
cars. After saying goodbye's, the trailer guy pulled out and nearly
ripped the door off one of the other guy's car with the wheel of the
trailer. Unfortunately we had not yet bought insurance, and cost of
repairs for the damage was estimated at $2700.
A. We all shoulder the burden and each pay $675 to get the door
replaced/fixed.
B. Driver takes full responsibility for the collision -- files a
claim w/ his insurance, pays deductible.
C. Driver files claim, the three (or four) of us pay his deductible,
maybe extra to account for possibly higher insurance rates.
How should this be handled?? We are not in agreement and it is a sore
spot right now.
-Steve

This is the kind of stuff that should be agreed up[on ahead of time.
IMO, that's what insurance is for. If he were somewhere alone and drove
the trailer into a stranger's car, he'd be responsible. You guys pay him
extra for wear and tear, past of that goes towards assuming this risk.
With that said, I think it would be cool if the band pitched in on the
deductible. It was a "band" thing... even if the bonehead can't drive,
you *all* assume the risk of having a bad driver drive the trailer around.
You guys need to butch up and pay his deductible for the sake of the band.

I agree, but going forward get insurance. How much extra do you pay him?

[oldschool]

1. driver files claim
2. band (including driver) chips in equal shares to cover deductible
3. buy insurance

Post by Steve V
Over the course of three years, each member of four-piece band
contributed equal shares of gig earnings to purchase sound system,
lights, fog machine, misc gear, and a trailer.  One of the members is
the only one with a vehicle able to tow the trailer and ample space in
a rural area to store it, so he agreed to be the trailer guy.  We had
been giving him gas money and extra for wear/tear.  He had towed it
about a dozen times before this particular gig.  After a 4hr show over
2hrs away, we were back at the meeting point in a shopping ctr parking
lot.  We finished transferring some gear from the trailer to our
cars.  After saying goodbye's, the trailer guy pulled out and nearly
ripped the door off one of the other guy's car with the wheel of the
trailer.  Unfortunately we had not yet bought insurance, and cost of
repairs for the damage was estimated at $2700.
A.  We all shoulder the burden and each pay $675 to get the door
replaced/fixed.
B.  Driver takes full responsibility for the collision -- files a
claim w/ his insurance, pays deductible.
C.  Driver files claim, the three (or four) of us pay his deductible,
maybe extra to account for possibly higher insurance rates.
How should this be handled??  We are not in agreement and it is a sore
spot right now.
-Steve

[baby dodds]

1.  driver files claim
2.  band (including driver) chips in equal shares to cover deductible
3.  buy insurance

Post by Steve V
Over the course of three years, each member of four-piece band
contributed equal shares of gig earnings to purchase sound system,
lights, fog machine, misc gear, and a trailer.  One of the members is
the only one with a vehicle able to tow the trailer and ample space in
a rural area to store it, so he agreed to be the trailer guy.  We had
been giving him gas money and extra for wear/tear.  He had towed it
about a dozen times before this particular gig.  After a 4hr show over
2hrs away, we were back at the meeting point in a shopping ctr parking
lot.  We finished transferring some gear from the trailer to our
cars.  After saying goodbye's, the trailer guy pulled out and nearly
ripped the door off one of the other guy's car with the wheel of the
trailer.  Unfortunately we had not yet bought insurance, and cost of
repairs for the damage was estimated at $2700.
A.  We all shoulder the burden and each pay $675 to get the door
replaced/fixed.
B.  Driver takes full responsibility for the collision -- files a
claim w/ his insurance, pays deductible.
C.  Driver files claim, the three (or four) of us pay his deductible,
maybe extra to account for possibly higher insurance rates.
How should this be handled??  We are not in agreement and it is a sore
spot right now.
-Steve

this all seems pretty clear. i like the thoughtful responses. the
other option, i.e. stick "trailer guy" with all the costs seems a bit
brutal and sure to create ill will for years... thousands perhaps even
millions of years......
but hey! what is a band without anger and animosity among each other?

[Steve V]

Post by baby dodds

1.  driver files claim
2.  band (including driver) chips in equal shares to cover deductible
3.  buy insurance

Post by Steve V
Over the course of three years, each member of four-piece band
contributed equal shares of gig earnings to purchase sound system,
lights, fog machine, misc gear, and a trailer.  One of the members is
the only one with a vehicle able to tow the trailer and ample space in
a rural area to store it, so he agreed to be the trailer guy.  We had
been giving him gas money and extra for wear/tear.  He had towed it
about a dozen times before this particular gig.  After a 4hr show over
2hrs away, we were back at the meeting point in a shopping ctr parking
lot.  We finished transferring some gear from the trailer to our
cars.  After saying goodbye's, the trailer guy pulled out and nearly
ripped the door off one of the other guy's car with the wheel of the
trailer.  Unfortunately we had not yet bought insurance, and cost of
repairs for the damage was estimated at $2700.
A.  We all shoulder the burden and each pay $675 to get the door
replaced/fixed.
B.  Driver takes full responsibility for the collision -- files a
claim w/ his insurance, pays deductible.
C.  Driver files claim, the three (or four) of us pay his deductible,
maybe extra to account for possibly higher insurance rates.
How should this be handled??  We are not in agreement and it is a sore
spot right now.
-Steve

this all seems pretty clear. i like the thoughtful responses. the
other option, i.e. stick "trailer guy" with all the costs seems a bit
brutal and sure to create ill will for years... thousands perhaps even
millions of years......
but hey! what is a band without anger and animosity among each other?

Guys,

Thanks for all the responses. Please continue with any input you
might have on this.

Here is the disagreement:
My position is that the driver should take ownership of his mistake
and file a claim with his insurance, BUT I made it very clear that I
am more than willing to help pay for his deductible. The other two
guys want to get quotes from a body shop for the repairs and each pay
1/4 out of pocket, so that the driver will not have to go through his
insurance. The first quote so far was $2700, or $675 each.

The other two are appalled that I am not willing to go with their
solution, and even brought my morals into question at our meeting.
All I know is that if I was the driver my "morals" would prevent me
from subjecting each member of the band to such a high cost for a
blunder that I could have easily prevented by doing a simple walk-
around of the trailer.

We all got payouts for the 3 gigs we did since the incident so we can
deal with it separately, but it's going to come up again. Should I
chalk it up and go with their decision or stand my ground? Are there
any compromises I should consider?

--Steve

[-MIKE-]

Post by Steve V

Post by baby dodds

Post by oldschool
1. driver files claim
2. band (including driver) chips in equal shares to cover deductible
3. buy insurance

Post by Steve V
Over the course of three years, each member of four-piece band
contributed equal shares of gig earnings to purchase sound system,
lights, fog machine, misc gear, and a trailer. One of the members is
the only one with a vehicle able to tow the trailer and ample space in
a rural area to store it, so he agreed to be the trailer guy. We had
been giving him gas money and extra for wear/tear. He had towed it
about a dozen times before this particular gig. After a 4hr show over
2hrs away, we were back at the meeting point in a shopping ctr parking
lot. We finished transferring some gear from the trailer to our
cars. After saying goodbye's, the trailer guy pulled out and nearly
ripped the door off one of the other guy's car with the wheel of the
trailer. Unfortunately we had not yet bought insurance, and cost of
repairs for the damage was estimated at $2700.
A. We all shoulder the burden and each pay $675 to get the door
replaced/fixed.
B. Driver takes full responsibility for the collision -- files a
claim w/ his insurance, pays deductible.
C. Driver files claim, the three (or four) of us pay his deductible,
maybe extra to account for possibly higher insurance rates.
How should this be handled?? We are not in agreement and it is a sore
spot right now.
-Steve

this all seems pretty clear. i like the thoughtful responses. the
other option, i.e. stick "trailer guy" with all the costs seems a bit
brutal and sure to create ill will for years... thousands perhaps even
millions of years......
but hey! what is a band without anger and animosity among each other?

Guys,
Thanks for all the responses. Please continue with any input you
might have on this.
My position is that the driver should take ownership of his mistake
and file a claim with his insurance, BUT I made it very clear that I
am more than willing to help pay for his deductible. The other two
guys want to get quotes from a body shop for the repairs and each pay
1/4 out of pocket, so that the driver will not have to go through his
insurance. The first quote so far was $2700, or $675 each.
The other two are appalled that I am not willing to go with their
solution, and even brought my morals into question at our meeting.
All I know is that if I was the driver my "morals" would prevent me
from subjecting each member of the band to such a high cost for a
blunder that I could have easily prevented by doing a simple walk-
around of the trailer.
We all got payouts for the 3 gigs we did since the incident so we can
deal with it separately, but it's going to come up again. Should I
chalk it up and go with their decision or stand my ground? Are there
any compromises I should consider?
--Steve

Unless the guy is single and 20 years old, or he has a horrible driving
record, his insurance isn't going to go up for one little claim.... and
yes, a few grand is little to the insurance company.

You guys shouldn't be punished because of his horrible driving
record.... or maybe you should since you let a guy with a bad record
drive the trailer around. :-)

Stick to your guns about the insurance claim.... holy cow! This is
exactly why you buy the stuff. Explain your position along with any of
our input you so choose, but tell them that you'll respect the band's
final decision as long as the band buys insurance from now on and uses
it, OR any further accidents go to the driver's insurance with no
arguments.

Then as Dave Ramsey says, consider it "stupid tax" and lesson learned.

[richarde]

Post by -MIKE-

Post by baby dodds

1.  driver files claim
2.  band (including driver) chips in equal shares to cover deductible
3.  buy insurance

Post by Steve V
Over the course of three years, each member of four-piece band
contributed equal shares of gig earnings to purchase sound system,
lights, fog machine, misc gear, and a trailer.  One of the members is
the only one with a vehicle able to tow the trailer and ample space in
a rural area to store it, so he agreed to be the trailer guy.  We had
been giving him gas money and extra for wear/tear.  He had towed it
about a dozen times before this particular gig.  After a 4hr show over
2hrs away, we were back at the meeting point in a shopping ctr parking
lot.  We finished transferring some gear from the trailer to our
cars.  After saying goodbye's, the trailer guy pulled out and nearly
ripped the door off one of the other guy's car with the wheel of the
trailer.  Unfortunately we had not yet bought insurance, and cost of
repairs for the damage was estimated at $2700.
A.  We all shoulder the burden and each pay $675 to get the door
replaced/fixed.
B.  Driver takes full responsibility for the collision -- files a
claim w/ his insurance, pays deductible.
C.  Driver files claim, the three (or four) of us pay his deductible,
maybe extra to account for possibly higher insurance rates.
How should this be handled??  We are not in agreement and it is a sore
spot right now.
-Steve

this all seems pretty clear. i like the thoughtful responses. the
other option, i.e. stick "trailer guy" with all the costs seems a bit
brutal and sure to create ill will for years... thousands perhaps even
millions of years......
but hey! what is a band without anger and animosity among each other?

Guys,
Thanks for all the responses.  Please continue with any input you
might have on this.
My position is that the driver should take ownership of his mistake
and file a claim with his insurance, BUT I made it very clear that I
am more than willing to help pay for his deductible.  The other two
guys want to get quotes from a body shop for the repairs and each pay
1/4 out of pocket, so that the driver will not have to go through his
insurance.  The first quote so far was $2700, or $675 each.
The other two are appalled that I am not willing to go with their
solution, and even brought my morals into question at our meeting.
All I know is that if I was the driver my "morals" would prevent me
from subjecting each member of the band to such a high cost for a
blunder that I could have easily prevented by doing a simple walk-
around of the trailer.
We all got payouts for the 3 gigs we did since the incident so we can
deal with it separately, but it's going to come up again.  Should I
chalk it up and go with their decision or stand my ground?  Are there
any compromises I should consider?
--Steve

Unless the guy is single and 20 years old, or he has a horrible driving
record, his insurance isn't going to go up for one little claim.... and
yes, a few grand is little to the insurance company.
You guys shouldn't be punished because of his horrible driving
record.... or maybe you should since you let a guy with a bad record
drive the trailer around.   :-)
Stick to your guns about the insurance claim.... holy cow!  This is
exactly why you buy the stuff. Explain your position along with any of
our input you so choose, but tell them that you'll respect the band's
final decision as long as the band buys insurance from now on and uses
it, OR any further accidents go to the driver's insurance with no
arguments.
Then as Dave Ramsey says, consider it "stupid tax" and lesson learned.
--
  -MIKE-
  "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
     --Elvin Jones  (1927-2004)
  --
 http://mikedrums.com
  ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This is a traffic accident, not a 'band' issue. Unless the other
members of the band are somehow responsible for him driving the
trailer into the other guy's car it is the driver's responsibility to
get it fixed. Mistakes happen, that's what insurance is for. If the
rest of you want to kick in to help cover his deductible for the sake
of good will that's fine, but the rest of you are in no way obligated
to pay a dime. Just because he's pulling the "band trailer" doesn't
absolve him from being a safe, responsible driver.

[Tom]

Uuuuuu, I'm sorry, but the dude who did the damage uses his insurance to pay
for it.
That's what uinsurance is for. He files claim and maybe becuase you feel
nice you split the deductable.
If I run over your drum set does the whole band buy you a new kit? Nonsense.
This is a no brainer
and maybe next time the nimrod will be more careful.

Post by baby dodds

1. driver files claim
2. band (including driver) chips in equal shares to cover deductible
3. buy insurance

Post by Steve V
Over the course of three years, each member of four-piece band
contributed equal shares of gig earnings to purchase sound system,
lights, fog machine, misc gear, and a trailer. One of the members is
the only one with a vehicle able to tow the trailer and ample space in
a rural area to store it, so he agreed to be the trailer guy. We had
been giving him gas money and extra for wear/tear. He had towed it
about a dozen times before this particular gig. After a 4hr show over
2hrs away, we were back at the meeting point in a shopping ctr parking
lot. We finished transferring some gear from the trailer to our
cars. After saying goodbye's, the trailer guy pulled out and nearly
ripped the door off one of the other guy's car with the wheel of the
trailer. Unfortunately we had not yet bought insurance, and cost of
repairs for the damage was estimated at $2700.
A. We all shoulder the burden and each pay $675 to get the door
replaced/fixed.
B. Driver takes full responsibility for the collision -- files a
claim w/ his insurance, pays deductible.
C. Driver files claim, the three (or four) of us pay his deductible,
maybe extra to account for possibly higher insurance rates.
How should this be handled?? We are not in agreement and it is a sore
spot right now.
-Steve

this all seems pretty clear. i like the thoughtful responses. the
other option, i.e. stick "trailer guy" with all the costs seems a bit
brutal and sure to create ill will for years... thousands perhaps even
millions of years......
but hey! what is a band without anger and animosity among each other?

Guys,

Thanks for all the responses. Please continue with any input you
might have on this.

Here is the disagreement:
My position is that the driver should take ownership of his mistake
and file a claim with his insurance, BUT I made it very clear that I
am more than willing to help pay for his deductible. The other two
guys want to get quotes from a body shop for the repairs and each pay
1/4 out of pocket, so that the driver will not have to go through his
insurance. The first quote so far was $2700, or $675 each.

The other two are appalled that I am not willing to go with their
solution, and even brought my morals into question at our meeting.
All I know is that if I was the driver my "morals" would prevent me
from subjecting each member of the band to such a high cost for a
blunder that I could have easily prevented by doing a simple walk-
around of the trailer.

We all got payouts for the 3 gigs we did since the incident so we can
deal with it separately, but it's going to come up again. Should I
chalk it up and go with their decision or stand my ground? Are there
any compromises I should consider?

--Steve

[Rev. Poindexter]

Post by Steve V
Guys,
Thanks for all the responses. Please continue with any input you
might have on this.
My position is that the driver should take ownership of his mistake
and file a claim with his insurance, BUT I made it very clear that I
am more than willing to help pay for his deductible. The other two
guys want to get quotes from a body shop for the repairs and each pay
1/4 out of pocket, so that the driver will not have to go through his
insurance. The first quote so far was $2700, or $675 each.
The other two are appalled that I am not willing to go with their
solution, and even brought my morals into question at our meeting.
All I know is that if I was the driver my "morals" would prevent me
from subjecting each member of the band to such a high cost for a
blunder that I could have easily prevented by doing a simple walk-
around of the trailer.
We all got payouts for the 3 gigs we did since the incident so we can
deal with it separately, but it's going to come up again. Should I
chalk it up and go with their decision or stand my ground? Are there
any compromises I should consider?
--Steve

Hey guys, long time no post. I saw this thread and just had to comment….

The other guys are APPALLED that you won't cough up nearly $700 to
cover the stupidity the truck owning band member? Why should you give
up several gigs worth of income because someone else, whom you have no
control of did something stupid? I think you're being very generous in
even offering to pony up a share for his deductible.

The band hired him to haul the stuff and he had a traffic accident
while the band trailer was still hitched to his vehicle. It's his
responsibility. End of story. Neither you nor the band have any
liability that I can see.

The big question is: Why shouldn't the claim go through his insurance?
Did the other car just jump out in front of him? Did the trailer jump
off the hitch and bite the other car? Did you mentally will him (a 1/4
share worth) into the other car? This is ridiculous. Perhaps the real
reason he and they want to take care of this outside of the insurance
company is that (just maybe) HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY COVERAGE on his truck?
I'd seriously consider that possibility.

Like -MIKE- said, unless he already has a horrendous driving record or
if he's under 25, his insurance won't go up at all. I went though it 2
years ago when I backed my truck into a telephone pole. $1700 in body
work later - no change in my insurance rate. As a matter of fact it
went DOWN the next year.

If they keep this up I'd ask not only for them to STFU, but also to
cash out my share of the equipment and I'd move on. Never do it again
either. Community band equipment is a disaster just waiting to happen
as far as I'm concerned. I've seen it happen way too many times over
the years.

[d***@is.invalid]

On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:56:42 -0700 (PDT), Steve V

Post by Steve V
How should this be handled?? We are not in agreement and it is a sore
spot right now.
-Steve

Write a Country & Western song about this fuck up. Make it good so it
goes to number one on the CW charts. Then use the song proceeds to pay
for a giant motor bus, ditch the trailer, and go on tour where you
endlessly shill your number one C&W tune to large breasted CW groupie
chicks. Enough hit records and groupie chicks smooths over any and all
band disputes.

You're welcome.
Dave