Band Drama

In our cover band, we make the songs somewhat our own. If a player is
playing something that doesn't work for the other players then there is a
discussion and a fix. Tell your sound dude to put the box in the spot it is
needed. It's not his gear. It doesn't affect his job in the least. He still
has all the twisties on his end, and you have less to worry about. If he
isn't happy about getting an even split for no investment tell him to kick
rocks.
Get that power on stage too.
--
J Wald

"You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.... "

Go to set up and our sound guy has yet again placed the snake box 10 feet
from the riser stage right. All extra snake cable is at the board, no way
for me to change it with out much hassle. I do have a couple bad cords.
Had a signal with in ears but it wasn't loud enough. I have enough cable
to do the job normally but with the box being 10 away I had to use an
extra mic cable for the belt pack and my vocal mic too. Had to take my
snare mic cable off to deal with the non working kick cable.
I get pissed and go off un plug during sound check and plug directly into
the box which instead of at my feet is off the drum riser and behind the
guitar amps. He gets in my face for cussing on the mic, says "You're this
close, Pete" whatever that means, is he gonna slap me around?
I tell him if you would put the stage box in the middle of the stage we
wouldn't be having this problem right now. He keeps telling me it's not
his stuff that doesn't work it's mine, and it is the cable, BUT only
because I had to use an extra on on the vocal mic that I don't notmally
use. The band has no extra working cables either. It all comes down to the
extra cables we are running because the stage box is not stage center.
I am about to donate 8 new cables to the band and say have at it boys you
want drums in the mix, feel free to plug them in. I need my in ears to
protect my hearing something these guys don't seem to grasp. He actually
asked me today on the phone why the snake box needed to be in the center
of the stage. He also gets defensive if you touch the board and offer
suggestions to him. Case in point we have the power amps at the mixing
board for the mains so every gig they use four 100 foot cables to run the
power. No we don't have a powered board. i suggested months ago we need to
change that due to signal loss. Still the same. I was pretty upset that he
didn't have extra cable too.
So bottom line, I was pissed at him and went off but mainly because the FN
stage box was so far away compounding all these issues and he is dressing
me down getting in my face threatening me rather than trying to help me
right before a gig. If our singer has trouble with his in ears this guy is
to the stage in a heart beat helping him but all my gear is my own
problem.
My best solution is here are the cables, the mics, have fun setting them
up while I set my drums up. Maybe if he lives on my side of the fence for
awhile he will get off my back. Oh I forgot to mention he owns NO pa gear,
has little experience but a decent ear, very little understanding and
knowledge in the PA area, and gets a full share of all our gigs if he is
there running sound or there at a festival not running sound. IOW he is a
contractor that we pay a full share working for us. He has no decision
making voting rights, but is free to add his 2 cents.
Thoughts? How would you deal with this situation without coming off as
arrogant ass? I do have tinitus pretty bad and I use the in ears to
mitigate further damage to my ears, so not using them is not a solution,
and yes I had enough cable to run my rig until I had to use extensions. I
tried to talk to him about it the next day and he asked me why the stage
box had to be in the middle of the stage. I responded if I have to explain
that to you, I can't help you.
Did I mention this was a gig I was looking forward to as it was on my birthday?
PP

-MIKE-

2009-09-27 18:37:42 UTC

Something that light save *you* some stress in the future, is to get
your own smaller snake, just for drums.
You can have the sub-snake wherever you need/want it, then run your
snake cable to the big snake, or all the way to the main board.

--
-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
***@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Todd H

2009-09-28 14:06:19 UTC

Post by Pete Pemberton
Thoughts? How would you deal with this situation without coming off as
arrogant ass?
I tried to talk to him about it the next day and he asked
me why the stage box had to be in the middle of the stage. I responded
if I have to explain that to you, I can't help you.

Pete,

Your fate as being thought of by him as an arrogant ass got sealed
with that answer, I'm afraid. I wasn't there of course, but it seemed
like he was reaching out and trying to understand it by asking you.

Yeah, maybe he is a dumb as a box of marbles (as the benefits of
putting the stage box on the ... um... stage are self-evident to most
of us), but an apology for that comment there with an explanation of
"because if it's in the middle of the stage, we all have to run fewer
extension cables just to get to the snake" is all that he might need
for the bulb to come on.

Dealing with not so bright people is never fun--especially those who
are making the progression from unconscious incompetence to being
consciously incompetent, and their corresponding defensiveness--but I
hope y'all get it worked out!

I don't envy your position of having in-ears mixed by someone like
that. I'd be considering a personal monitor mixer or custom ear plugs
instead rather than giving that guy direct access to my ear canals,
but of course there are lots of reasons that may not be feasible too.

In a word: oy. Good luck!

--
Todd H toddh.net myspace.com/bmiawmb

Muso

2009-09-29 10:06:26 UTC

Post by Pete Pemberton
Go to set up and our sound guy has yet again placed the snake box 10
feet from the riser stage right. All extra snake cable is at the board,
no way for me to change it with out much hassle. I do have a couple bad
cords. Had a signal with in ears but it wasn't loud enough. I have
enough cable to do the job normally but with the box being 10 away I
had to use an extra mic cable for the belt pack and my vocal mic too.
Had to take my snare mic cable off to deal with the non working kick
cable.
I get pissed and go off un plug during sound check and plug directly
into the box which instead of at my feet is off the drum riser and
behind the guitar amps. He gets in my face for cussing on the mic, says
"You're this close, Pete" whatever that means, is he gonna slap me
around?
I tell him if you would put the stage box in the middle of the stage we
wouldn't be having this problem right now. He keeps telling me it's not
his stuff that doesn't work it's mine, and it is the cable, BUT only
because I had to use an extra on on the vocal mic that I don't notmally
use. The band has no extra working cables either. It all comes down to
the extra cables we are running because the stage box is not stage
center.
I am about to donate 8 new cables to the band and say have at it boys
you want drums in the mix, feel free to plug them in. I need my in ears
to protect my hearing something these guys don't seem to grasp. He
actually asked me today on the phone why the snake box needed to be in
the center of the stage. He also gets defensive if you touch the board
and offer suggestions to him. Case in point we have the power amps at
the mixing board for the mains so every gig they use four 100 foot
cables to run the power. No we don't have a powered board. i suggested
months ago we need to change that due to signal loss. Still the same. I
was pretty upset that he didn't have extra cable too.
So bottom line, I was pissed at him and went off but mainly because the
FN stage box was so far away compounding all these issues and he is
dressing me down getting in my face threatening me rather than trying
to help me right before a gig. If our singer has trouble with his in
ears this guy is to the stage in a heart beat helping him but all my
gear is my own problem.
My best solution is here are the cables, the mics, have fun setting
them up while I set my drums up. Maybe if he lives on my side of the
fence for awhile he will get off my back. Oh I forgot to mention he
owns NO pa gear, has little experience but a decent ear, very little
understanding and knowledge in the PA area, and gets a full share of
all our gigs if he is there running sound or there at a festival not
running sound. IOW he is a contractor that we pay a full share working
for us. He has no decision making voting rights, but is free to add his
2 cents.
Thoughts? How would you deal with this situation without coming off as
arrogant ass? I do have tinitus pretty bad and I use the in ears to
mitigate further damage to my ears, so not using them is not a
solution, and yes I had enough cable to run my rig until I had to use
extensions. I tried to talk to him about it the next day and he asked
me why the stage box had to be in the middle of the stage. I responded
if I have to explain that to you, I can't help you.
Did I mention this was a gig I was looking forward to as it was on my birthday?
PP

Pete, I wish I had your problems. I'm not even set up with
microphones yet. It is interesting to see how the problems never
really go away, though.

Mike Mandaville
Austin, Texas

Sean Conolly

2009-09-29 14:05:06 UTC

I run into enough problems dealing with house sound guys that I just don't
rely on them at all now. I use my own, independant setup on stage - mics,
mixer, comp/gates, EQ and amp, with one or two 18 speakers depending on the
size of the room. I have one speaker pointed at me as a monitor, and one on
the other side of the kit pointed to the house.

If the house guy wants the drums I just send him a send from the kick and
one overhead condensor - basically giving him almost no control over the
drum mix, just the overall volume. Since I started working this way a few
years back I've never been asked to turn down my stage rig, and I've never
had a complaint from the sound guys once they heard the feed they were
getting.

Sean

Vince Schaefer

2009-09-30 19:52:23 UTC

Post by Sean Conolly
I run into enough problems dealing with house sound guys that I just don't
rely on them at all now. I use my own, independant setup on stage - mics,
mixer, comp/gates, EQ and amp, with one or two 18 speakers depending on the
size of the room. I have one speaker pointed at me as a monitor, and one on
the other side of the kit pointed to the house.
If the house guy wants the drums I just send him a send from the kick and
one overhead condensor - basically giving him almost no control over the
drum mix, just the overall volume. Since I started working this way a few
years back I've never been asked to turn down my stage rig, and I've never
had a complaint from the sound guys once they heard the feed they were
getting.
Sean

This is a good way to go.
I started giving the sound guys two cords back when I was doing electric.
I've always done stereo outs, but your thoughts on just bass and one channel
makes sense. At first tried to give as many as I could, but quickly found
out all the negatives attached to that. You could check the sound at the
beginning and get a good mix.......but when you don't use your 'cowbell'
channel for the first three tunes, and then you try it, it's gone, because
the mix has adjusted around it and buried it. if the sound guy recognizes
this he could adjust....but they usually don't notice your missing cowbell
part. (unless of course, it's a solo cowbell!)
My set is complete....I've got my mixer and rack within reach of my right
hand, and I plug IEM right into headphone jack.
As for cords....I always get the best, and I've always treated them like
they would last for my lifetime.....
Vince

Pete Pemberton

2009-10-01 11:15:45 UTC

How long does it take you to set up? Load in must be a bear too. I
guess though you have your rack, and the speakers, then you run the
cables the subs. Set up your drums and mics, the overhead, plug your in
ears in. Do you sing?

I like the idea of less is more for FOH. Really that's all you should
need anywhere. Then there is the issue of where do I put all that in my
car. I am full now with a GMC Jimmy. I would need a trailer.

Poo on that!

PP

Sean Conolly

2009-10-04 15:15:46 UTC

Sorry for the delay - been working a lot of overtime on the day job..

I have it down to fairly quick setup - 45 minutes to load in and setup. All
of the rack gear is in a 4U rack with enough space to stuff all of the
cables in the back. I'm currently using a Mackie 1202 on top, and I have the
insert cables wrapped into a bundle and clearly numbered so I can quickly
plug them in. The only catch is that I only have four mic inputs on the
Mackie, which are used by the kick and three toms - all of which are gated &
comp'd through a cheap Behringer 4-channel unit. It's fine for the smaller
rooms where we run the sound from the stage.

When we play in larger rooms or outside, or when we have to use a house PA,
I add my two channel preamp (RNP). The additional two channels let me add my
headset mic, or snare, or overhead as needed. If I'm running the two mics to
the house I'll move the kick mic to this so I can give them a balanced
pre-amp signal from the kick, and use the insert out to run into the Mackie.
I really need bigger board but it seems that everything with more than four
preamps uses faders - and I don't like faders because it's too easy to bump
something when I'm making quick adjustments while I'm playing.

I don't sing that much nowadays - most of the songs I did backup on were cut
along with the last singer. I rely on hearing the vocals from the front
monitors and don't have anything but drums in my rig. That encourages me to
keep the volume down to tolerable levels for everyone else, too. It doesn't
hurt that I have a really loud voice :-)

I like the idea of less is more for FOH. Really that's all you should need
anywhere. Then there is the issue of where do I put all that in my car. I
am full now with a GMC Jimmy. I would need a trailer.
Poo on that!

I have a Mazda 3 hatchback :-)

After I take out the passenger seat I can carry the the single 18" version
of the setup - even with a five piece kit and a 24" kick. Usually that's all
I need, but when I need the bigger rig I haul out the old Astro van. For a
while there I was playing 5 to 8 gigs a month, most of them over an hour
away, so I was always trying to keep it down to what I can haul in the Mazda
to save on gas. Now if I could find a cheap, small trailer to pull behind
the Mazda ...

Sean

FastLundy

2009-09-29 15:48:00 UTC

Seems like once the emotion and frustration has subsided it will be
easy to clarify that the snake box needs to be within a couple feet of
the drums. If that doesn't pose a problem for anyone else, then its a
total no-brainer. Replace your bad cords asap (toss the bad ones...
I'll never know why I feel the need to hold on to bad cord, but I do,
only to be mistakenly used again at a future gig!). Also, would make
sense to buy a few extra cords as backup using $ from the general fund
(if your band has one), or just carve out a few bucks from everyone
equally at the next gig. No biggie.

Sounds like you've got a system that works fine overall (although
could be improved if it mattered enough). A bad night can make
everything seem sucky, but then again, maybe that's not the best time
to give a fair critique.

FastLundy
PaulLundquist

Pete Pemberton

2009-09-29 16:27:56 UTC

thday?

Seems like once the emotion and frustration has subsided it will be
easy to clarify that the snake box needs to be within a couple feet of
the drums. If that doesn't pose a problem for anyone else, then its a
total no-brainer. Replace your bad cords asap (toss the bad ones...
I'll never know why I feel the need to hold on to bad cord, but I do,
only to be mistakenly used again at a future gig!). Also, would make
sense to buy a few extra cords as backup using $ from the general fund
(if your band has one), or just carve out a few bucks from everyone
equally at the next gig. No biggie.
Sounds like you've got a system that works fine overall (although
could be improved if it mattered enough). A bad night can make
everything seem sucky, but then again, maybe that's not the best time
to give a fair critique.
FastLundy
PaulLundquist

Thanks for the comments guys, it's all good. I need better quality
cables and I need to learn how to wrap them correctly.

PP

JWald

2009-09-29 20:46:56 UTC

Pete,
Try this link. It a video of proper cable wrapping from Stagecraft.
http://stagecraft.theprices.net/gallery/cablewrap/cablewrap-qt.html
--
J Wald

"You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.... "

thday?

Seems like once the emotion and frustration has subsided it will be
easy to clarify that the snake box needs to be within a couple feet of
the drums. If that doesn't pose a problem for anyone else, then its a
total no-brainer. Replace your bad cords asap (toss the bad ones...
I'll never know why I feel the need to hold on to bad cord, but I do,
only to be mistakenly used again at a future gig!). Also, would make
sense to buy a few extra cords as backup using $ from the general fund
(if your band has one), or just carve out a few bucks from everyone
equally at the next gig. No biggie.
Sounds like you've got a system that works fine overall (although
could be improved if it mattered enough). A bad night can make
everything seem sucky, but then again, maybe that's not the best time
to give a fair critique.
FastLundy
PaulLundquist

Thanks for the comments guys, it's all good. I need better quality cables
and I need to learn how to wrap them correctly.
PP

Rev Poindexter

2009-10-15 14:30:41 UTC

thday?

Seems like once the emotion and frustration has subsided it will be
easy to clarify that the snake box needs to be within a couple feet of
the drums. If that doesn't pose a problem for anyone else, then its a
total no-brainer. Replace your bad cords asap (toss the bad ones...
I'll never know why I feel the need to hold on to bad cord, but I do,
only to be mistakenly used again at a future gig!). Also, would make
sense to buy a few extra cords as backup using $ from the general fund
(if your band has one), or just carve out a few bucks from everyone
equally at the next gig. No biggie.
Sounds like you've got a system that works fine overall (although
could be improved if it mattered enough). A bad night can make
everything seem sucky, but then again, maybe that's not the best time
to give a fair critique.
FastLundy
PaulLundquist

Thanks for the comments guys, it's all good. I need better quality
cables and I need to learn how to wrap them correctly.
PP

Pete,
This might help.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--HOSSH62

RP

Pete Pemberton

2009-10-15 21:21:22 UTC

Post by Rev Poindexter

thday?