Discussion:
Tips for swapping from brushes to sticks
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r***@googlemail.com
2009-04-16 14:24:45 UTC
Permalink
Anyone got any tips for swapping quickly between brushes and sticks
(and back again)? I'm particularly interested in a jazz scenario where
the head is played with brushes, but solos are accompanied with
sticks, reverting back to brushes for the head out.

Which hand leads? Where do you put the brushes? And how not to
completely fluff it up with a clatter of sticks as the sax player
launches into a solo ;o)

Thanks,
Rich

www.quorumjazzquartet.co.uk
Chris Whealy
2009-04-16 17:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@googlemail.com
www.quorumjazzquartet.co.uk
Just listened to the demo tracks on your website - nice playing!

Since I also do alot of mixing and post production, I thought I'd toss
my tuppence ha'penny in about the demo tracks.

When listening on the crappy speakers in my laptop, it sounds as though
the tracks were mixed by a guitar player - or at least someone who likes
the sound of the guitar - since this instrument is in the frequency
range at which these speakers are most responsive. This gives the
effect unfortunately of the guitar being way at the front of the mix, to
the point that the sax is almost an afterthought. This particularly
noticeable on "A Foggy Day" and "Summertime".

When listening on good quality headphones (Sennheiser HMD 280 Pro's),
the balance is better because they can reproduce the bottom and top end
that are missing when listening on the laptop speakers.

Don't know who did the mixing, but may I suggest the following:
o The snare and sax sound like they are very dry . You can give these
instruments more space with a little medium length reverb
o As you're making the mix, always check what it sounds like in mono.
If anything panned centre pops forward when you switch from stereo to
mono, then its probably too loud.
o After you've done a mix, leave it a day or two, then check it on the
crappiest speakers you can find. If it still sounds good, then you've
got a mix that will travel well.

Other than the production process, I think your band sounds great!

£0.025

Chris W
--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---
r***@googlemail.com
2009-04-16 21:26:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Whealy
Post by r***@googlemail.com
www.quorumjazzquartet.co.uk
Just listened to the demo tracks on your website - nice playing!
Since I also do alot of mixing and post production, I thought I'd toss
my tuppence ha'penny in about the demo tracks.
When listening on the crappy speakers in my laptop, it sounds as though
the tracks were mixed by a guitar player - or at least someone who likes
the sound of the guitar - since this instrument is in the frequency
range at which these speakers are most responsive.  This gives the
effect unfortunately of the guitar being way at the front of the mix, to
the point that the sax is almost an afterthought.  This particularly
noticeable on "A Foggy Day" and "Summertime".
When listening on good quality headphones (Sennheiser HMD 280 Pro's),
the balance is better because they can reproduce the bottom and top end
that are missing when listening on the laptop speakers.
 o The snare and sax sound like they are very dry .  You can give these
instruments more space with a little medium length reverb
 o As you're making the mix, always check what it sounds like in mono.  
If anything panned centre pops forward when you switch from stereo to
mono, then its probably too loud.
 o After you've done a mix, leave it a day or two, then check it on the
crappiest speakers you can find.  If it still sounds good, then you've
got a mix that will travel well.
Other than the production process, I think your band sounds great!
£0.025
Chris W
--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
                                         ---
Thanks for the comments! The demo was recorded live in my garage on my
(now ancient) Roland VS1680 with prosumer Rode/AKG mics, good old
SM57s and some DI-ing. We picked the best of 3 takes per track. There
wasn't much post-production - just my attempt at mixing down and
trying to get some natural sounding reverb from the VS1680 FX - but
our guitarist was beside me ;o)

I didn't sum to mono, also my reference speakers are quite bass heavy,
so I think probably I need to compensate a bit. On a previous attempt
we added too much reverb to the sax and it sounded like George
Michael's Careless Whisper, which wasn't ideal for jazz. But yeah,
maybe turned down the reverb too much on sax and drums.

If I get the chance I'll have a go at remixing. Can you recommend any
good books/websites on mixing down? Haven't had too much trouble
micing, but would love to know what the norm is for rhythm section
levels vs solo instruments level in jazz.

You might have also noticed the drums were panned to one spot just to
the side of centre. That's because I attempted to use a 3 mic
technique to simulate those 60s recordings, which has no stereo
imaging. Plus we wanted each instrument to inhabit it's own space in
the stereo field (apart from drums and bass keeping near the centre).

Cheers,
Rich.
Minga
2009-04-16 19:43:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@googlemail.com
Anyone got any tips for swapping quickly between brushes and sticks
(and back again)? I'm particularly interested in a jazz scenario where
the head is played with brushes, but solos are accompanied with
sticks, reverting back to brushes for the head out.
Which hand leads? Where do you put the brushes? And how not to
completely fluff it up with a clatter of sticks as the sax player
launches into a solo ;o)
Thanks,
Rich
www.quorumjazzquartet.co.uk
Hey Rich,

Yes, I agree with the practice thing. Some things you can do is to
have your sticks as close to your hands as possible such as on a music
stand that you can simply reach to without needing to reach over or
around any drums or cymbals. If you are playing a tune that has a 2
bar turnaround at the end of the form on the head, that is a logical
place to make the switch. You can try to splash your hi hats a time or
two to fill in the time as you make the switch. The big thing is to
stay relaxed so you don't fumble the sticks/brushes and also stay
relaxed so you do not affect the time of the tune. Be careful to not
rush the time as you are hurrying to swap sticks. It's better to have
a lull in sound than to rush or drage the time. Also, it may help to
get one stick in a hand and start keeping time on a ride cymbal and
then calmly get your other stick and start playing.

Jody
r***@googlemail.com
2009-04-16 21:08:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Minga
Post by r***@googlemail.com
Anyone got any tips for swapping quickly between brushes and sticks
(and back again)? I'm particularly interested in a jazz scenario where
the head is played with brushes, but solos are accompanied with
sticks, reverting back to brushes for the head out.
Which hand leads? Where do you put the brushes? And how not to
completely fluff it up with a clatter of sticks as the sax player
launches into a solo ;o)
Thanks,
Rich
www.quorumjazzquartet.co.uk
Hey Rich,
Yes, I agree with the practice thing. Some things you can do is to
have your sticks as close to your hands as possible such as on a music
stand that you can simply reach to without needing to reach over or
around any drums or cymbals. If you are playing a tune that has a 2
bar turnaround at the end of the form on the head, that is a logical
place to make the switch. You can try to splash your hi hats a time or
two to fill in the time as you make the switch. The big thing is to
stay relaxed so you don't fumble the sticks/brushes and also stay
relaxed so you do not affect the time of the tune. Be careful to not
rush the time as you are hurrying to swap sticks. It's better to have
a lull in sound than to rush or drage the time. Also, it may help to
get one stick in a hand and start keeping time on a ride cymbal and
then calmly get your other stick and start playing.
Jody
Yes, I think I'm trying to squeeze the swapover into too few beats.
I'll try a more relaxed approach.

Cheers,
Rich.
t***@hotmail.com
2009-04-16 21:18:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@googlemail.com
Anyone got any tips for swapping quickly between brushes and sticks
(and back again)?
You might try a pair of these:
http://www.vater.com/newproducts/product.cfm?M=62

I recall seeing Louis Bellson using something similar in a short
segment of an instructional DVD.
r***@googlemail.com
2009-04-16 21:31:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@googlemail.com
Anyone got any tips for swapping quickly between brushes and sticks
(and back again)?
You might try a pair of these:http://www.vater.com/newproducts/product.cfm?M=62
I recall seeing Louis Bellson using something similar in a short
segment of an instructional DVD.
Now that's cheating! But if they were good enough for Louis...

Thanks,
Rich.
2sticks
2009-04-17 15:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@googlemail.com
Anyone got any tips for swapping quickly between brushes and sticks
(and back again)? I'm particularly interested in a jazz scenario where
the head is played with brushes, but solos are accompanied with
sticks, reverting back to brushes for the head out.
Which hand leads? Where do you put the brushes? And how not to
completely fluff it up with a clatter of sticks as the sax player
launches into a solo ;o)
Thanks,
Rich
www.quorumjazzquartet.co.uk
I saw an excellent Jeff Hamilton clinic (amazing brush player) and he
had this move where he would shove his sticks between his butt and the
throne and do the switch with one hand while still playing with the
other, subsequently shoving the brushes under his butt and passing off
the second stick to his other hand. It was too smooth and fast to
completely figure out what he was doing but I now do something similar
when switching between sticks and mallets. There's a bunch of YouTube
videos of Jeff and you can probably find him doing it.
r***@googlemail.com
2009-04-17 20:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by 2sticks
Post by r***@googlemail.com
Anyone got any tips for swapping quickly between brushes and sticks
(and back again)? I'm particularly interested in a jazz scenario where
the head is played with brushes, but solos are accompanied with
sticks, reverting back to brushes for the head out.
Which hand leads? Where do you put the brushes? And how not to
completely fluff it up with a clatter of sticks as the sax player
launches into a solo ;o)
Thanks,
Rich
www.quorumjazzquartet.co.uk
I saw an excellent Jeff Hamilton clinic (amazing brush player) and he
had this move where he would shove his sticks between his butt and the
throne and do the switch with one hand while still playing with the
other, subsequently shoving the brushes under his butt and passing off
the second stick to his other hand. It was too smooth and fast to
completely figure out what he was doing but I now do something similar
when switching between sticks and mallets. There's a bunch of YouTube
videos of Jeff and you can probably find him doing it.
He's a great player - in fact I play Bosphorus cymbals partly thanks
to Jeff Hamilton. Anyway - I'll pop onto YouTube and see what's
around. I can kind of imagine what he might be doing - nice tip -
thanks!
b***@yahoo.com
2009-04-21 13:37:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@googlemail.com
Post by 2sticks
Post by r***@googlemail.com
Anyone got any tips for swapping quickly between brushes and sticks
(and back again)? I'm particularly interested in a jazz scenario where
the head is played with brushes, but solos are accompanied with
sticks, reverting back to brushes for the head out.
Which hand leads? Where do you put the brushes? And how not to
completely fluff it up with a clatter of sticks as the sax player
launches into a solo ;o)
Thanks,
Rich
www.quorumjazzquartet.co.uk
I saw an excellent Jeff Hamilton clinic (amazing brush player) and he
had this move where he would shove his sticks between his butt and the
throne and do the switch with one hand while still playing with the
other, subsequently shoving the brushes under his butt and passing off
the second stick to his other hand. It was too smooth and fast to
completely figure out what he was doing but I now do something similar
when switching between sticks and mallets. There's a bunch of YouTube
videos of Jeff and you can probably find him doing it.
He's a great player - in fact I play Bosphorus cymbals partly thanks
to Jeff Hamilton. Anyway - I'll pop onto YouTube and see what's
around. I can kind of imagine what he might be doing - nice tip -
thanks!
Jeff's a freak when it comes to the switch off. I remember traveling
to a gig, listening to Diana Krall's "Live in Paris" CD. I think it
was "Devil May Care," where he swaps out and it's just "Boom! I'm
playing with sticks now!" I kept backing it up and backing it up,
thinking, "How'd this guy do that so fast?" I have the DVD of the
concert now, but I don't think the camera's on him during that
particular switchover. It appears he leaves his brushes all over: he
has them on the rim of the snare at some points, on the floor tom,
even on his music stand. He makes it look so EASY!

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