Discussion:
Supraphonic substitutes?
(too old to reply)
Bill Coffin
2010-05-27 22:10:49 UTC
Permalink
I've been playing Supraphonics for years and love the sound. But I hate
that they go out of tune so quickly. I'm using those plastic thingies
(I'm blanking on the name) but they don't give you much flexibility.

I've seen newer snares out there that look like they're Supra
imitations. Any opinions on these? Any that have worked for you, both
in sound and in tuning retention? I play the 5 1/2 depth, BTW.

Thanks,
Bill
--
Bill Coffin --- ***@eclipsoid.com --- visit us at www.eclipsoid.com
Steve Turner
2010-05-28 21:07:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Coffin
I've been playing Supraphonics for years and love the sound. But I hate
that they go out of tune so quickly. I'm using those plastic thingies
(I'm blanking on the name) but they don't give you much flexibility.
I've seen newer snares out there that look like they're Supra
imitations. Any opinions on these? Any that have worked for you, both
in sound and in tuning retention? I play the 5 1/2 depth, BTW.
Thanks,
Bill
Why would a Supra go out of tune any faster than any other drum? Can't say that I've
noticed that with any of my Supras...
--
"Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier
than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Bill Coffin
2010-05-29 23:52:40 UTC
Permalink
Well, it seems to be a commonly-cited problem. And I have no such
problem with the various other snares I play. I do hit a lot of rim-
shots; perhaps you don't?

-Bill
Post by Steve Turner
Post by Bill Coffin
I've been playing Supraphonics for years and love the sound. But I hate
that they go out of tune so quickly. I'm using those plastic thingies
(I'm blanking on the name) but they don't give you much flexibility.
I've seen newer snares out there that look like they're Supra
imitations. Any opinions on these? Any that have worked for you, both
in sound and in tuning retention? I play the 5 1/2 depth, BTW.
Thanks,
Bill
Why would a Supra go out of tune any faster than any other drum? Can't say that I've
noticed that with any of my Supras...
--
Bill Coffin --- ***@eclipsoid.com --- visit us at www.eclipsoid.com
Sean Conolly
2010-05-30 15:03:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Coffin
Well, it seems to be a commonly-cited problem. And I have no such
problem with the various other snares I play. I do hit a lot of rim-
shots; perhaps you don't?
Commonly cited? It's the first I've ever heard of it, and I really doubt
it's the drum. Try a heavier top hoop and see if that helps.

Sean
Steve Turner
2010-05-30 16:27:49 UTC
Permalink
<top-posting corrected>
Post by Bill Coffin
Post by Steve Turner
Post by Bill Coffin
I've been playing Supraphonics for years and love the sound. But I hate
that they go out of tune so quickly. I'm using those plastic thingies
(I'm blanking on the name) but they don't give you much flexibility.
I've seen newer snares out there that look like they're Supra
imitations. Any opinions on these? Any that have worked for you, both
in sound and in tuning retention? I play the 5 1/2 depth, BTW.
Thanks,
Bill
Why would a Supra go out of tune any faster than any other drum? Can't say that I've
noticed that with any of my Supras...
Well, it seems to be a commonly-cited problem. And I have no such
problem with the various other snares I play. I do hit a lot of rim-
shots; perhaps you don't?
-Bill
Actually I do; Bill Bruford was one of my biggest influences, and since I first
started stealing his ideas in the late seventies rim-shots have been one of my
most commonly-used tools. But like him, I'm not a very heavy hitter so perhaps
that's a factor of the equation?
--
A. Because it makes the discussion harder to read.
Q. Why should I not top-post?
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Bill Coffin
2010-05-30 23:34:47 UTC
Permalink
Well, I'm a pretty light hitter too. It's amazing how quietly you can
play rimshots.

Anyway, to reiterate to Sean: I have no trouble with other snare drums
detuning. And a lot of friends have complained about the supra. I'm
getting by with luglocks, though.

-Bill
Post by Steve Turner
<top-posting corrected>
Post by Bill Coffin
Post by Steve Turner
Post by Bill Coffin
I've been playing Supraphonics for years and love the sound. But I hate
that they go out of tune so quickly. I'm using those plastic thingies
(I'm blanking on the name) but they don't give you much flexibility.
I've seen newer snares out there that look like they're Supra
imitations. Any opinions on these? Any that have worked for you, both
in sound and in tuning retention? I play the 5 1/2 depth, BTW.
Thanks,
Bill
Why would a Supra go out of tune any faster than any other drum? Can't say that I've
noticed that with any of my Supras...
Well, it seems to be a commonly-cited problem. And I have no such
problem with the various other snares I play. I do hit a lot of rim-
shots; perhaps you don't?
-Bill
Actually I do; Bill Bruford was one of my biggest influences, and since I first
started stealing his ideas in the late seventies rim-shots have been one of my
most commonly-used tools. But like him, I'm not a very heavy hitter so perhaps
that's a factor of the equation?
--
Bill Coffin --- ***@eclipsoid.com --- visit us at www.eclipsoid.com
Steve Turner
2010-06-03 02:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Coffin
Well, I'm a pretty light hitter too. It's amazing how quietly you can
play rimshots.
Anyway, to reiterate to Sean: I have no trouble with other snare drums
detuning. And a lot of friends have complained about the supra. I'm
getting by with luglocks, though.
There sure seem to be a lot of lug-locking contraptions out there, and some of
them seem pretty gimmicky to me. I've never bothered using any of them so I
don't know how well they work, but it strikes me that the cheap-skate's
solution would be to simply go down to the hardware store and buy a batch of
12-24 nuts, thread them all the way onto the tension rods (after passing them
through the rim), tuning the drum to your liking, then threading those nuts
down towards the nuts built in to the lugs and tightening them against each
other with a wrench. Anybody ever tried that?
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
-MIKE-
2010-06-03 03:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Turner
Well, I'm a pretty light hitter too. It's amazing how quietly you can
play rimshots.
Anyway, to reiterate to Sean: I have no trouble with other snare drums
detuning. And a lot of friends have complained about the supra. I'm
getting by with luglocks, though.
There sure seem to be a lot of lug-locking contraptions out there, and
some of them seem pretty gimmicky to me. I've never bothered using any
of them so I don't know how well they work, but it strikes me that the
cheap-skate's solution would be to simply go down to the hardware store
and buy a batch of 12-24 nuts, thread them all the way onto the tension
rods (after passing them through the rim), tuning the drum to your
liking, then threading those nuts down towards the nuts built in to the
lugs and tightening them against each other with a wrench. Anybody ever
tried that?
The plastic jobbies work.

I make my own from UHMW plastic and the bandsaw.
I know *you* could handle that task blindfolded.
--
-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
***@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Steve Turner
2010-06-03 13:48:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by -MIKE-
Post by Steve Turner
Well, I'm a pretty light hitter too. It's amazing how quietly you can
play rimshots.
Anyway, to reiterate to Sean: I have no trouble with other snare drums
detuning. And a lot of friends have complained about the supra. I'm
getting by with luglocks, though.
There sure seem to be a lot of lug-locking contraptions out there, and
some of them seem pretty gimmicky to me. I've never bothered using any
of them so I don't know how well they work, but it strikes me that the
cheap-skate's solution would be to simply go down to the hardware store
and buy a batch of 12-24 nuts, thread them all the way onto the tension
rods (after passing them through the rim), tuning the drum to your
liking, then threading those nuts down towards the nuts built in to the
lugs and tightening them against each other with a wrench. Anybody ever
tried that?
The plastic jobbies work.
I make my own from UHMW plastic and the bandsaw.
I know *you* could handle that task blindfolded.
There are some varieties that work by simply making it difficult to turn the tension rods in
and out of the lug nuts, as with these:

https://www.drumfoundry.com/c-48-lockrod-tension-rods.aspx

I think that would drive me NUTS (no pun intended), not being able to thread the rods into
the lug nuts by simply spinning them with my fingers until they're snug. Having to use a
key or some electric "spinny" thing to run them the first 3/4" or so until they touch the
rim would be a cure worse than the illness, IMO.
--
A. Because it makes the discussion harder to read.
Q. Why should I not top-post?
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
-MIKE-
2010-06-03 17:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Turner
There are some varieties that work by simply making it difficult to turn
https://www.drumfoundry.com/c-48-lockrod-tension-rods.aspx
I think that would drive me NUTS (no pun intended), not being able to
thread the rods into the lug nuts by simply spinning them with my
fingers until they're snug. Having to use a key or some electric
"spinny" thing to run them the first 3/4" or so until they touch the rim
would be a cure worse than the illness, IMO.
I'm with you. I want something I can take off or put on, quickly and
easily.
Sonor has those wire clips on their lugs, but I end up taking them off
and leaving them off most of the time, for that very reason.
--
-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
***@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Sean Conolly
2010-06-04 05:31:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by -MIKE-
Post by Steve Turner
There are some varieties that work by simply making it difficult to turn
https://www.drumfoundry.com/c-48-lockrod-tension-rods.aspx
I think that would drive me NUTS (no pun intended), not being able to
thread the rods into the lug nuts by simply spinning them with my
fingers until they're snug. Having to use a key or some electric
"spinny" thing to run them the first 3/4" or so until they touch the rim
would be a cure worse than the illness, IMO.
I'm with you. I want something I can take off or put on, quickly and
easily.
Sonor has those wire clips on their lugs, but I end up taking them off
and leaving them off most of the time, for that very reason.
I've never needed to try it, but I think simple star washers would work,
given enough tension on the lugs. They might scratch up the finish a little
on the rims, but you won't notice them until the lugs are pretty tight.

Sean
-MIKE-
2010-06-04 16:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean Conolly
I've never needed to try it, but I think simple star washers would work,
given enough tension on the lugs. They might scratch up the finish a little
on the rims, but you won't notice them until the lugs are pretty tight.
Sean
I'm not sure those would work. What lets the drum de-tune is that when
you do a rimshot, the rim gets pushed down a little, allowing a gap
between the rim and lug head. I think the gap would then just be between
the star washer and the rim.

Just thinking out loud.
--
-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
***@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Steve Turner
2010-06-06 03:00:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Turner
Well, I'm a pretty light hitter too. It's amazing how quietly you can
play rimshots.
Anyway, to reiterate to Sean: I have no trouble with other snare drums
detuning. And a lot of friends have complained about the supra. I'm
getting by with luglocks, though.
There sure seem to be a lot of lug-locking contraptions out there, and
some of them seem pretty gimmicky to me. I've never bothered using any
of them so I don't know how well they work, but it strikes me that the
cheap-skate's solution would be to simply go down to the hardware store
and buy a batch of 12-24 nuts, thread them all the way onto the tension
rods (after passing them through the rim), tuning the drum to your
liking, then threading those nuts down towards the nuts built in to the
lugs and tightening them against each other with a wrench. Anybody ever
tried that?
I see somebody already stole my idea:

http://www.drumsonsale.com/ludwig-tension-rod-lock-nut-p-2045.html

I *suppose* their implementation is better because it doesn't require a wrench.
:-)
--
Repeat after me:
"I am we Todd it. I am sofa king we Todd it."
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
-MIKE-
2010-06-06 03:11:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Turner
http://www.drumsonsale.com/ludwig-tension-rod-lock-nut-p-2045.html
I *suppose* their implementation is better because it doesn't require a
wrench. :-)
"Standard 7/32" thread. Sold individually. $1.75 "

Wow, um.... ok, a buck seventy-five each? really?

And what's standard about 7/32? I've never heard of that.
--
-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
***@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Steve Turner
2010-06-06 14:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by -MIKE-
Post by Steve Turner
http://www.drumsonsale.com/ludwig-tension-rod-lock-nut-p-2045.html
I *suppose* their implementation is better because it doesn't require a
wrench. :-)
"Standard 7/32" thread. Sold individually. $1.75 "
Wow, um.... ok, a buck seventy-five each? really?
Oh, but it's a *specialty* item so you WILL pay the price we're asking (waves
hand magically a la Obi-Wan Kenobi talking to the Storm Troopers).
Post by -MIKE-
And what's standard about 7/32? I've never heard of that.
Nor have I. I was going to say something about that, but I've been trying to
make progress on addressing my wife's assertion that I complain about every
little thing. :-)
--
"Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier
than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
JWald
2010-06-06 12:04:27 UTC
Permalink
----
Post by Steve Turner
Post by Steve Turner
Well, I'm a pretty light hitter too. It's amazing how quietly you can
play rimshots.
Anyway, to reiterate to Sean: I have no trouble with other snare drums
detuning. And a lot of friends have complained about the supra. I'm
getting by with luglocks, though.
There sure seem to be a lot of lug-locking contraptions out there, and
some of them seem pretty gimmicky to me. I've never bothered using any
of them so I don't know how well they work, but it strikes me that the
cheap-skate's solution would be to simply go down to the hardware store
and buy a batch of 12-24 nuts, thread them all the way onto the tension
rods (after passing them through the rim), tuning the drum to your
liking, then threading those nuts down towards the nuts built in to the
lugs and tightening them against each other with a wrench. Anybody ever
tried that?
http://www.drumsonsale.com/ludwig-tension-rod-lock-nut-p-2045.html
I *suppose* their implementation is better because it doesn't require a
wrench. :-)
--
"I am we Todd it. I am sofa king we Todd it."
To reply, eat the taco.
http://ww--
w.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

Ludwig has been doing this for years. I've got a 14 x 8 Collusiem very much
like this one.
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25722&stc=1&d=1239073398

J Wald
--
"Can't do it Sally"
Tom Hagen
Godfather I
Steve Turner
2010-06-06 14:14:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by JWald
----
Post by Steve Turner
Post by Steve Turner
There sure seem to be a lot of lug-locking contraptions out there, and
some of them seem pretty gimmicky to me. I've never bothered using any
of them so I don't know how well they work, but it strikes me that the
cheap-skate's solution would be to simply go down to the hardware store
and buy a batch of 12-24 nuts, thread them all the way onto the tension
rods (after passing them through the rim), tuning the drum to your
liking, then threading those nuts down towards the nuts built in to the
lugs and tightening them against each other with a wrench. Anybody ever
tried that?
http://www.drumsonsale.com/ludwig-tension-rod-lock-nut-p-2045.html
I *suppose* their implementation is better because it doesn't require a
wrench. :-)
Ludwig has been doing this for years. I've got a 14 x 8 Collusiem very much
like this one.
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25722&stc=1&d=1239073398
I hate it when you think up a great idea and you find out somebody's already
thought of it. :-) No matter, I've already thought up a MUCH better solution
to this problem, and assuming nobody else has ever thought of it I could
probably patent that sucker... which I'll never bother to do, and 5 years from
now when my idea shows up on some manufacturer's drums I'll say "HEY, they
stole my idea!" :-)
--
My momma taught me two things about life:
1. Never tell them everything you know;

To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Pete Pemberton
2010-06-06 18:24:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Coffin
Well, I'm a pretty light hitter too. It's amazing how quietly you can
play rimshots.
Anyway, to reiterate to Sean: I have no trouble with other snare drums
detuning. And a lot of friends have complained about the supra. I'm
getting by with luglocks, though.
-Bill
I have had trouble wih them, too. Try die cast hoops, should help. Also
aren't there some tension rods available that have grooves or something
cut down through the threads to help keep them tight?

PP
Steve Turner
2010-06-06 18:46:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pete Pemberton
Well, I'm a pretty light hitter too. It's amazing how quietly you can
play rimshots.
Anyway, to reiterate to Sean: I have no trouble with other snare drums
detuning. And a lot of friends have complained about the supra. I'm
getting by with luglocks, though.
-Bill
I have had trouble wih them, too. Try die cast hoops, should help. Also
aren't there some tension rods available that have grooves or something
cut down through the threads to help keep them tight?
PP
Do try to keep up Pete; we've already talked this one to death :-)
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Pete Pemberton
2010-06-09 06:53:52 UTC
Permalink
On 2010-06-06 14:46:47 -0400, Steve Turner
Post by Steve Turner
Post by Pete Pemberton
Well, I'm a pretty light hitter too. It's amazing how quietly you can
play rimshots.
Anyway, to reiterate to Sean: I have no trouble with other snare drums
detuning. And a lot of friends have complained about the supra. I'm
getting by with luglocks, though.
-Bill
I have had trouble wih them, too. Try die cast hoops, should help. Also
aren't there some tension rods available that have grooves or something
cut down through the threads to help keep them tight?
PP
Do try to keep up Pete; we've already talked this one to death :-)
Sorry been off here for a while. Is it 2000 yet? zzzzz

PP

drummerrob
2010-05-30 17:09:08 UTC
Permalink
I've been playing Supraphonics for years and love the sound.  But I hate
that they go out of tune so quickly.  I'm using those plastic thingies
(I'm blanking on the name) but they don't give you much flexibility.
I've seen newer snares out there that look like they're Supra
imitations.  Any opinions on these?  Any that have worked for you, both
in sound and in tuning retention?  I play the 5 1/2 depth, BTW.
Thanks,
 Bill
--
As I am a Taye dealer, this may sound like the fox guarding the
henhouse, but personally I find the Taye 5x14 Stainless Steel has many
of the characteristics of the old Supraphonic 400. I have both, and .
Throaty, loud without sounding too metallic. It's not outrageously
expensive either.

Rob
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