Deadbeat Students

[Chris Milillo]

Recently, the parent of 3 students of mine went AWOL on me, while owing me
for lessons. The week after she 'forgot her check book' and said "I'll pay
you next week", they pulled a no-show, and since then she hasn't returned my
multiple calls or emails. I even sent emails with return receipt requested,
and either by mistake, or to stick it to me, she actually returned the
"read" request, but never replied.

I am so pissed off that someone would, in effect, "steal" my services, and
on principle (more than for the money itself), I'm not going to let this
slide. This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so they can
more than afford to pay for the services I provided. Since it's not a
significant amount, small claims court would probably cost more than it's
worth, in filing fees and time, but I may consider it, or at least the
threat of small claims court. What would you do?

CM

[Todd H]

Post by Chris Milillo
Recently, the parent of 3 students of mine went AWOL on me, while owing me
for lessons. The week after she 'forgot her check book' and said "I'll pay
you next week", they pulled a no-show, and since then she hasn't returned my
multiple calls or emails. I even sent emails with return receipt requested,
and either by mistake, or to stick it to me, she actually returned the
"read" request, but never replied.
I am so pissed off that someone would, in effect, "steal" my services, and
on principle (more than for the money itself), I'm not going to let this
slide. This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so they can
more than afford to pay for the services I provided. Since it's not a
significant amount, small claims court would probably cost more than it's
worth, in filing fees and time, but I may consider it, or at least the
threat of small claims court. What would you do?

The realist/businessman view:
Send invoices. If not paid, take it as a writeoff on your taxes.

A music shop here locally does payments in advance monthly, and if
you're not paid for your lesson, you don't get it. It's kinda a pain,
but apparently they had similar issues.


Now, if you time to be vindictive and wanna have some fun:
If feeling inventive, post their name on a web page of deadbeats, off
your site (if you have one) and make enough links to it for google
pick up on the page when they google for their own name.

Or, call them at work. linkedin.com can be helpful in identifying the
employer. Leave a message with an assistant. Bosses don't like being
known as deadbeats by their assistants. You can have fun with this if
you don't want them as a client ever again.

So a little mining on social networks like facebook. Maybe befriend
friends of their or relatives of the parents.

Or..if you want to dabble in something that's really evil, if they're
not on facebook, some have signed up for facebook using the deadbeats
name, then collected emails from long lost friends of theirs that
suddenly find them. I would never condone violating Facebook's terms
of use, of course.

Good luck!

[Pete Pemberton]

Post by Todd H
A music shop here locally does payments in advance monthly, and if
you're not paid for your lesson, you don't get it. It's kinda a pain,
but apparently they had similar issues.

Not that this helps you now but this is what I do.

PP

[gpsman]

Post by Chris Milillo
Recently, the parent of 3 students of mine went AWOL on me, while owing me
for lessons. The week after she 'forgot her check book' and said "I'll pay
you next week", they pulled a no-show, and since then she hasn't returned my
multiple calls or emails. I even sent emails with return receipt requested,
and either by mistake, or to stick it to me, she actually returned the
"read" request, but never replied.
I am so pissed off that someone would, in effect, "steal" my services, and
on principle (more than for the money itself), I'm not going to let this
slide. This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so they can
more than afford to pay for the services I provided. Since it's not a
significant amount, small claims court would probably cost more than it's
worth, in filing fees and time, but I may consider it, or at least the
threat of small claims court. What would you do?

Send invoices.  If not paid, take it as a writeoff on your taxes.
A music shop here locally does payments in advance monthly, and if
you're not paid for your lesson, you don't get it.  It's kinda a pain,
but apparently they had similar issues.

"Lessons" by "legitimate" (substitute- "more formal") businesses seem
to tend to be a prepaid service.

Rule #1 is, Get the money.

Rule # 1.1 is, get it first.
Rule # 2 is, Never get emotionally involved in business, but
especially never act while angry.

When do people say and do the most stupid shit... often cause more
harm to themselves... and often fail to consider irreversible
unintended consequences...?

There are legal and professional methods by which to pursue a debt and
you violate them at your peril.

It is human, but not businesslike or professional to take business
personally.

Although not specified, the debt seems to be late by a matter of a few
weeks. That's a little too soon to start dunning somebody for a "not
a significant amount" (which also suggests this debt is not
significantly "late").

"Rich" people often "slow roll" the smaller payments 90-120 days (and
some bigger ones). Yes, it's too much trouble to write all those
checks, and it appears the OP doesn't request or demand advance
payment.

If you're cash short you just call and say so. "I'm in a tight spot
and trying to collect all my outstanding A/R, can you help me out?"
I've done it hundreds and hundreds of times... but mostly those in
excess of 90 days in arrears.

If the students are "AWOL" perhaps there is an underlying issue, and I
think that is the line of questioning I would first pursue.
-----

- gpsman

[Chris Milillo]

Post by Chris Milillo
Recently, the parent of 3 students of mine went AWOL on me, while owing me
for lessons. The week after she 'forgot her check book' and said "I'll pay
you next week", they pulled a no-show, and since then she hasn't returned my
multiple calls or emails. I even sent emails with return receipt requested,
and either by mistake, or to stick it to me, she actually returned the
"read" request, but never replied.
I am so pissed off that someone would, in effect, "steal" my services, and
on principle (more than for the money itself), I'm not going to let this
slide. This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so they can
more than afford to pay for the services I provided. Since it's not a
significant amount, small claims court would probably cost more than it's
worth, in filing fees and time, but I may consider it, or at least the
threat of small claims court. What would you do?

Send invoices. If not paid, take it as a writeoff on your taxes.
A music shop here locally does payments in advance monthly, and if
you're not paid for your lesson, you don't get it. It's kinda a pain,
but apparently they had similar issues.

"Lessons" by "legitimate" (substitute- "more formal") businesses seem
to tend to be a prepaid service.

Rule #1 is, Get the money.

Rule # 1.1 is, get it first.

*** This has been my policy for many years, and some of my peers have
commented on the fact that I truly uphold lesson policy (which was adopted
as the studio policy at the music store where I teach, 2 years ago), whereas
they feel uncomfortable doing so. I've been teaching professionally for a
lot longer than most of them have, so my tolerance for last minute
cancellations and no-shows is zero. They'll end up here, eventually.
Rule # 2 is, Never get emotionally involved in business, but
especially never act while angry.

When do people say and do the most stupid shit... often cause more
harm to themselves... and often fail to consider irreversible
unintended consequences...?

There are legal and professional methods by which to pursue a debt and
you violate them at your peril.

It is human, but not businesslike or professional to take business
personally.

*** I agree. The human side of me wants both the money and revenge, and
the business side of me just wants my friggin' money. Personally, I would
never knowingly rip someone off, so clearly I'm a fool to expect the same
ethic of everyone. Having said that, 99.9% of the students I've ever taught
in my life have always been paid in full.

Although not specified, the debt seems to be late by a matter of a few
weeks. That's a little too soon to start dunning somebody for a "not
a significant amount" (which also suggests this debt is not
significantly "late")

***Actually, at this point, the lessons in question were taken on
September 8th, so it's over 60 days late, not counting the fact that payment
was due at the end of August. Let's be nice and say it's about 70-75 days
"late".

"Rich" people often "slow roll" the smaller payments 90-120 days (and
some bigger ones). Yes, it's too much trouble to write all those
checks, and it appears the OP doesn't request or demand advance
payment.

If you're cash short you just call and say so. "I'm in a tight spot
and trying to collect all my outstanding A/R, can you help me out?"
I've done it hundreds and hundreds of times... but mostly those in
excess of 90 days in arrears.

***My emails and phone calls saying just that have been ignored, which
is a large part of why I'm pissed off. It's not just late, she has no
intention of paying and thinks it will just go away if she ignores me. On
principle, I won't let it go.

If the students are "AWOL" perhaps there is an underlying issue, and I
think that is the line of questioning I would first pursue.

*** Whatever the issue, and even if I'm the worst music instructor in
the state of New York, they knew my rate and patronized my business. I
consider it a theft of services, though the legal definition (which is more
along the lines of fraud, paying with stolen credit card, bad checks, etc.)
does not fit my situation.

CM

[Chris Milillo]

Post by Todd H

Post by Chris Milillo
Recently, the parent of 3 students of mine went AWOL on me, while owing me
for lessons. The week after she 'forgot her check book' and said "I'll pay
you next week", they pulled a no-show, and since then she hasn't returned my
multiple calls or emails. I even sent emails with return receipt requested,
and either by mistake, or to stick it to me, she actually returned the
"read" request, but never replied.
I am so pissed off that someone would, in effect, "steal" my services, and
on principle (more than for the money itself), I'm not going to let this
slide. This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so they can
more than afford to pay for the services I provided. Since it's not a
significant amount, small claims court would probably cost more than it's
worth, in filing fees and time, but I may consider it, or at least the
threat of small claims court. What would you do?

Send invoices. If not paid, take it as a writeoff on your taxes.

Far too rational! ;-)

Post by Todd H
A music shop here locally does payments in advance monthly, and if
you're not paid for your lesson, you don't get it. It's kinda a pain,
but apparently they had similar issues.

I, too, collect advance payments on a monthly basis (actually, I collect for
the coming month at the last lesson of the current month, so even the first
lesson of the month is paid in advance). Of course, this was the first
lesson of a new month and she "forgot".

I love the rest of your reply (re: being vindictive), and though my first
thought was to put a cinder block through their picture window, I've already
let this get to me more than it should, and I don't need to get myself into
any trouble.

Thanks!
CM

[-MIKE-]

Post by Chris Milillo
Recently, the parent of 3 students of mine went AWOL on me, while owing me
for lessons. The week after she 'forgot her check book' and said "I'll pay
you next week", they pulled a no-show, and since then she hasn't returned my
multiple calls or emails. I even sent emails with return receipt requested,
and either by mistake, or to stick it to me, she actually returned the
"read" request, but never replied.
I am so pissed off that someone would, in effect, "steal" my services, and
on principle (more than for the money itself), I'm not going to let this
slide. This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so they can
more than afford to pay for the services I provided. Since it's not a
significant amount, small claims court would probably cost more than it's
worth, in filing fees and time, but I may consider it, or at least the
threat of small claims court. What would you do?
CM

In most cases, you can sue for court costs, on top of what is owed.

I would send an invoice, via certified letter, stating they have X days
to pay, without accumulating interest.
After X days, send another certified letter, with a new amount,
including interest, and state if it's not paid in X days, the matter
will be settled in small claims court.
After X days, proceed with small claims court, sue for the lessons,
interest, mail costs, court costs, lost wages to show up in court, prive
to dry clean you suit, and whatever else you can think of.
The judge will likely throw out all the extra fees, but you'll probably
get the the lessons, interest, mail costs, court costs.

Document everything and keep the certified mail paperwork.

[Jim Dwyer]

Excellent advice Mike.

Post by -MIKE-

Post by Chris Milillo
Recently, the parent of 3 students of mine went AWOL on me, while owing
me for lessons. The week after she 'forgot her check book' and said "I'll
pay you next week", they pulled a no-show, and since then she hasn't
returned my multiple calls or emails. I even sent emails with return
receipt requested, and either by mistake, or to stick it to me, she
actually returned the "read" request, but never replied.
I am so pissed off that someone would, in effect, "steal" my services,
and on principle (more than for the money itself), I'm not going to let
this slide. This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so
they can more than afford to pay for the services I provided. Since it's
not a significant amount, small claims court would probably cost more
than it's worth, in filing fees and time, but I may consider it, or at
least the threat of small claims court. What would you do?
CM

In most cases, you can sue for court costs, on top of what is owed.
I would send an invoice, via certified letter, stating they have X days
to pay, without accumulating interest.
After X days, send another certified letter, with a new amount,
including interest, and state if it's not paid in X days, the matter
will be settled in small claims court.
After X days, proceed with small claims court, sue for the lessons,
interest, mail costs, court costs, lost wages to show up in court, prive
to dry clean you suit, and whatever else you can think of.
The judge will likely throw out all the extra fees, but you'll probably
get the the lessons, interest, mail costs, court costs.
Document everything and keep the certified mail paperwork.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[-MIKE-]

Post by Jim Dwyer
Excellent advice Mike.

That's how I get sued. :-)

[Pete Pemberton]

Post by -MIKE-

Post by Jim Dwyer
Excellent advice Mike.

That's how I get sued. :-)

LOL classic!

PP

[Chris Milillo]

Post by -MIKE-

Post by Chris Milillo
Recently, the parent of 3 students of mine went AWOL on me, while owing
me for lessons. The week after she 'forgot her check book' and said "I'll
pay you next week", they pulled a no-show, and since then she hasn't
returned my multiple calls or emails. I even sent emails with return
receipt requested, and either by mistake, or to stick it to me, she
actually returned the "read" request, but never replied.
I am so pissed off that someone would, in effect, "steal" my services,
and on principle (more than for the money itself), I'm not going to let
this slide. This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so
they can more than afford to pay for the services I provided. Since it's
not a significant amount, small claims court would probably cost more
than it's worth, in filing fees and time, but I may consider it, or at
least the threat of small claims court. What would you do?
CM

In most cases, you can sue for court costs, on top of what is owed.
I would send an invoice, via certified letter, stating they have X days
to pay, without accumulating interest.
After X days, send another certified letter, with a new amount,
including interest, and state if it's not paid in X days, the matter
will be settled in small claims court.
After X days, proceed with small claims court, sue for the lessons,
interest, mail costs, court costs, lost wages to show up in court, prive
to dry clean you suit, and whatever else you can think of.
The judge will likely throw out all the extra fees, but you'll probably
get the the lessons, interest, mail costs, court costs.
Document everything and keep the certified mail paperwork.
-MIKE-

As always, Mike, you're the voice of reason. That's the route I'm taking at
this time, though my lady (a marketing exec.) feels the negative "word of
mouth" of pursuing this in small claims court may cost me more than I would
recoup. She feels that they might comply when they receive the certified
letter, and at the very least, I'd have a paper trail to claim a loss on my
taxes.

Also, when you say add "interest", do you mean a "late fee"? Or actual
compounded interest? And if you mean actual interest, at what rate? And
whaddya think about the "negative word of mouth" angle?

CM

[-MIKE-]

Post by Chris Milillo
As always, Mike, you're the voice of reason.

That's probably the first time I've heard *that.* :-)

Post by Chris Milillo
That's the route I'm taking at
this time, though my lady (a marketing exec.) feels the negative "word of
mouth" of pursuing this in small claims court may cost me more than I would
recoup. She feels that they might comply when they receive the certified
letter, and at the very least, I'd have a paper trail to claim a loss on my
taxes.
Also, when you say add "interest", do you mean a "late fee"? Or actual
compounded interest? And if you mean actual interest, at what rate?

Just a flat ten percent.
So I guess it would be a late fee, but you add another every month or
whatever.

Post by Chris Milillo
And
whaddya think about the "negative word of mouth" angle?
CM

I guess you gotta go with your gut on that one. Your lady has both the
marketing experience and woman's intuition, and that's hard to beat,
so of course I'll give you my opinions.... :-)

One one hand...
You already have a successful record as teacher and surely have those
who offer to give you a good reference. Are all these drum lesson moms
hanging out in the same coffee shop sharing horror stories about
mechanics, plumbers and drum teachers? Probably not.
And if so, what is she going to say, "I was only two months late on
30 bucks and this sombich...."

On the other foot....
I'm guessing the letter will do the trick. I f not, you can write it off.

As a Christian, I can show you Bible verses about justice and
accountability, but I can show you many more verses about mercy and
forgiving debts. "Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy."

Sometimes it's better to let go of something like this, not for what it
does for the offending party, but for what it does for you. A grudge
does more harm to you than the person who harmed you.

I heard a quote from a preacher...
"Unforgiveness is like taking poison and expecting the other person to
get sick."

[JWald]

"Chris Milillo" <***@bestweb.net> wrote in message news:hcv81u$fa5$***@news.eternal-september.org...
This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so they can

more than afford to pay for the services I provided. >

Now you know why they can afford multiple houses. I'd hound them into the
ground.

J Wald

"You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.... "

[jergin]

Maybe they didnt pay you because as an instructor of drums--

YOU SUCK

Post by Chris Milillo
Recently, the parent of 3 students of mine went AWOL on me, while owing me
for lessons. The week after she 'forgot her check book' and said "I'll pay
you next week", they pulled a no-show, and since then she hasn't returned
my multiple calls or emails. I even sent emails with return receipt
requested, and either by mistake, or to stick it to me, she actually
returned the "read" request, but never replied.
I am so pissed off that someone would, in effect, "steal" my services, and
on principle (more than for the money itself), I'm not going to let this
slide. This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so they can
more than afford to pay for the services I provided. Since it's not a
significant amount, small claims court would probably cost more than it's
worth, in filing fees and time, but I may consider it, or at least the
threat of small claims court. What would you do?
CM
--
Chris Milillo
Professional Drums and Music Instruction
www.onlinedrumlessons.com
www.myspace.com/cmdrumstudio

[MikeMandaville]

Post by Chris Milillo
Recently, the parent of 3 students of mine went AWOL on me, while owing me
for lessons. The week after she 'forgot her check book' and said "I'll pay
you next week", they pulled a no-show, and since then she hasn't returned my
multiple calls or emails. I even sent emails with return receipt requested,
and either by mistake, or to stick it to me, she actually returned the
"read" request, but never replied.
I am so pissed off that someone would, in effect, "steal" my services, and
on principle (more than for the money itself), I'm not going to let this
slide. This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so they can
more than afford to pay for the services I provided. Since it's not a
significant amount, small claims court would probably cost more than it's
worth, in filing fees and time, but I may consider it, or at least the
threat of small claims court. What would you do?
CM
--
Chris Milillo
Professional Drums and Music Instructionwww.onlinedrumlessons.comwww.myspace.com/cmdrumstudio

I have customers for which I invoke a cash-in-advance policy. Of
course, they act very insulted after they have already established for
themselves a solid reputation for being deadbeats. A typical response
is "Well, how would you like it if I just stopped using your service
altogether?" Of course, my response is always "That would be
outstanding!" The good payers are always humble. The bad payers are
always flamboyant posers.

[gpsman]

I have customers for which I invoke a cash-in-advance policy.  Of
course, they act very insulted after they have already established for
themselves a solid reputation for being deadbeats.  A typical response
is "Well, how would you like it if I just stopped using your service
altogether?"

"How long would you say you've been using it, not including the rest
of today...?"

Perhaps as difficult as learning to not become emotionally involved in
business is learning to accurately identify the clients you don't
want.
-----

- gpsman

[Chris Milillo]

I have customers for which I invoke a cash-in-advance policy. Of
course, they act very insulted after they have already established for
themselves a solid reputation for being deadbeats. A typical response
is "Well, how would you like it if I just stopped using your service
altogether?"

"How long would you say you've been using it, not including the rest
of today...?"

Perhaps as difficult as learning to not become emotionally involved in
business is learning to accurately identify the clients you don't
want.
-----
gpsman

Good point.

CM

[Nospam]

I would simply ask Obama for a music industry bailout.
Maybe some type of cash for drums program. Trade in your drums to save the
trees! You will have some cash and will be going green at the same time!

No, serioulsy though. I think your feeling the pinch like all of us. I think
if the economy were doing good and you were not cash strapped you might not
be so upset about it, but yea, it does suck when people who have money do
this. Try writing a nice letter carfully pointing out that you last name
does end in a O.

Post by Chris Milillo
Recently, the parent of 3 students of mine went AWOL on me, while owing me
for lessons. The week after she 'forgot her check book' and said "I'll pay
you next week", they pulled a no-show, and since then she hasn't returned
my multiple calls or emails. I even sent emails with return receipt
requested, and either by mistake, or to stick it to me, she actually
returned the "read" request, but never replied.
I am so pissed off that someone would, in effect, "steal" my services, and
on principle (more than for the money itself), I'm not going to let this
slide. This family is fairly well off and owns several homes, so they can
more than afford to pay for the services I provided. Since it's not a
significant amount, small claims court would probably cost more than it's
worth, in filing fees and time, but I may consider it, or at least the
threat of small claims court. What would you do?
CM
--
Chris Milillo
Professional Drums and Music Instruction
www.onlinedrumlessons.com
www.myspace.com/cmdrumstudio